Road Accident Victims under investigation first.

#1
Tonight I ws driving home when the car behind me scraped along the side of my car and drove off causing paintwork damage.

I phoned the police and gave the plate number but was told to report it at the local station.

I reported this to the local station who have issued a number but demanded that I, as the victim of this offence, produce my licence and insurance "which traffic will verify" before an investiagtion is started into the woman who drove off.

Apparently I am guilty until proven innocent and when I have proved my innocence of admin crime will they look into the driving away and failing to stop issue.

Am I losing sense of proportion here or am I right to be highly offended that Hampshire Police want to investiagte me as the person who reported the incident before they chase the perpetrator?

Any serious advice here?
 
#2
No your not.
We have been having a on/off dispute with the boyfriend of a neighbour.Where I live is off the road at the bottom of a Cul-De-Sac so therefore my car is parked about 100Meters from my home.This w***** reckons that we are not entitled to park there (despite myself & my neighbour in the Apt below me parking no where near said w*****'s apartment.) & we should be parking in the lay by reserved for the pensioners in the bungalows opposite.
Anyway,one night the w***** comes banging on my door & yelling to me to move my car if I dont want it damaged.So I tell hime to to "F*ck off & get a life".
The next day when I gets home from work,a wheelie bin is lying up against my car door with a nice dent in it.The other bins re up on the pavement out of the road so it seems a bit wierd to me.He's gawping out of the window,almost waiting for my reaction.
Anyway,I reported the suspected vandalism to the PSNI & I got the same reaction from them as you did.It seems to me that this is a way of 'fobbing you off' with a excuse so they dont have to do anything.
 
#3
Furryturd said:
Tonight I ws driving home when the car behind me scraped along the side of my car and drove off causing paintwork damage.

I phoned the police and gave the plate number but was told to report it at the local station.

I reported this to the local station who have issued a number but demanded that I, as the victim of this offence, produce my licence and insurance "which traffic will verify" before an investiagtion is started into the woman who drove off.

Apparently I am guilty until proven innocent and when I have proved my innocence of admin crime will they look into the driving away and failing to stop issue.

Am I losing sense of proportion here or am I right to be highly offended that Hampshire Police want to investiagte me as the person who reported the incident before they chase the perpetrator?

Any serious advice here?
Drive your car a bit too near a plod vehicle, scrape some paint off - then demand you see all lease/purchasing paperwork, insurance, who drove it when etc etc... then pay up ;)
 
#4
Standard format for when a motorist has an RTC (road traffic collision), can't call it accident anymore :roll:
But the RTC forms require both partys to provide full details of Licence, Insurance, MOT etc. Come on lets get down to earth here, your not being investigated , the Police need your Licence Insurance etc should they track down the other party so as they can be passed to the other partys Insurance company etc. (I'll bet if they do track the other drive down he says he didn't know he hit you!!!) As its damage only? It will more than likely be 'Insurance Companys to deal'.
I take it a civvy desk enquiry officer dealt with you as a Cop could have checked in about 3 minutes wether you a. have a licence, b. Insurance and c. MOT (so long as its the new electronic one).
Bottom line don't expect to get a positive response if you are not insured!! You can't really complain can you if you are not legally on the road, but then you wouldn't drive without being legit, would you ??? 8O
 
#5
yamkwak said:
Standard format for when a motorist has an RTC (road traffic collision), can't call it accident anymore :roll:
But the RTC forms require both partys to provide full details of Licence, Insurance, MOT etc. Come on lets get down to earth here, your not being investigated , the Police need your Licence Insurance etc should they track down the other party so as they can be passed to the other partys Insurance company etc. (I'll bet if they do track the other drive down he says he didn't know he hit you!!!) As its damage only? It will more than likely be 'Insurance Companys to deal'.
I take it a civvy desk enquiry officer dealt with you as a Cop could have checked in about 3 minutes wether you a. have a licence, b. Insurance and c. MOT (so long as its the new electronic one).
Bottom line don't expect to get a positive response if you are not insured!! You can't really complain can you if you are not legally on the road, but then you wouldn't drive without being legit, would you ??? 8O
He's right you know mate, don't sweat it, it's just routine and helps to compile all kinds of important stats for the government to tell you how warm, safe and fuzzy the roads are. :roll:

It doesn't mean that the police think you're to blame, on the contrary whoever gets the paperwork to investigate it will probably believe you 1st.
 
#6
What I find offensive is that I was informed that the investigation of the other driver will not commence until I prove that I am legitimately on the road. I am assumed to be guilty of an unspecified offence and therefore my complaint is not being investigated until I produce my documents.

I am not interested in the police passing information on to insurance companies; I am not aware that the police historically had any input to insurance companies apart from providing evidence in disputes.

If my house is broken into will I now have to prove that I have a right to live at the address before plod investigates?

By the way, they did not even bother looking at the car or photographing it even though the paint from the other car is scraped along the side.

With regard to insurance, yes, it is insured, taxed and I hold a full licence but was also informed that as I have recently moved house and sent my licence off for change of address I may fall foul of the 7 day rule to produce my licence and could get summonsed for this.

So, in short, I get crashed into and Hampshire police take me to court....what a lovely country Mr Blair has created.
 
#7
yamkwak said:
Standard format for when a motorist has an RTC (road traffic collision), can't call it accident anymore :roll:
But the RTC forms require both partys to provide full details of Licence, Insurance, MOT etc. Come on lets get down to earth here, your not being investigated , the Police need your Licence Insurance etc should they track down the other party so as they can be passed to the other partys Insurance company etc. (I'll bet if they do track the other drive down he says he didn't know he hit you!!!) As its damage only? It will more than likely be 'Insurance Companys to deal'.
I take it a civvy desk enquiry officer dealt with you as a Cop could have checked in about 3 minutes wether you a. have a licence, b. Insurance and c. MOT (so long as its the new electronic one).
Bottom line don't expect to get a positive response if you are not insured!! You can't really complain can you if you are not legally on the road, but then you wouldn't drive without being legit, would you ??? 8O
Not surprised was a story in the Lanc's evening post about a family who staged/caused RTA's on purpose to claim insurance etc they made a tidy sum but were IIRC caught out by an insurers surveillance team. One or two got the jail and all monies to be paid back and I'm sure it was a high 5/6 figure sum.
 
#8
But is does beg the question 'Yamkwak, The_Seagull' would it not easy to just explain that when your dealing with someone reporting a RTC in the circumstances that 'Furryturd' describes.

I know very well that Furry was probaly dealing with Support staff rather than a P.C.

The fact is this failure to comunicate properly by 'The Police' is the very reason you are loseing support at the grass roots.

I say this not to have a pop and i know that training time resources have been cut n slashed that the paper work mountain that liabour uses to spin police results isnt helping.
 
#9
A mate of mine was stopped by the old bill a couple of weeks ago driving his Mondeo He was given a 7 day producer for his documents. fair enough , so off he goes to his local station with MOT insurance etc to be told that as the car is fairly old and it has less than 2 months left on the MOT he has to get it re MOT'd now as they can't accept it!

One slightly less than polite conversation with threats of going to the police complaints commission, papers, local news etc and the civi (not a proper copper) decides that everything is in order after all.
 
#10
halo_jones said:
But is does beg the question 'Yamkwak, The_Seagull' would it not easy to just explain that when your dealing with someone reporting a RTC in the circumstances that 'Furryturd' describes.

I know very well that Furry was probaly dealing with Support staff rather than a P.C.

The fact is this failure to comunicate properly by 'The Police' is the very reason you are loseing support at the grass roots.

I say this not to have a pop and i know that training time resources have been cut n slashed that the paper work mountain that liabour uses to spin police results isnt helping.
Couldn't agree more with you, sounds like poor service to me and a complete arrse about face explanantion of the process. Me I would/could have checked all the required docs there and then and then processed his report. As for Insurance Companys, my forces policy is to pass over details straight to insurance companys in a case like this. Stops each party going round and kicking off and then pointing the finger at Police saying 'your fault you gave them my address'. Poor communication is probably one of the biggest causes of this type of frustration and misunderstanding. Lets face it if he is legit Full Licence, Insurance etc regardless of if his Licence is away at DVLA it takes someone minutes to access PNC and check his Licence, so he won't be getting 'done'.
 
#11
theoriginalphantom said:
A mate of mine was stopped by the old bill a couple of weeks ago driving his Mondeo He was given a 7 day producer for his documents. fair enough , so off he goes to his local station with MOT insurance etc to be told that as the car is fairly old and it has less than 2 months left on the MOT he has to get it re MOT'd now as they can't accept it!

One slightly less than polite conversation with threats of going to the police complaints commission, papers, local news etc and the civi (not a proper copper) decides that everything is in order after all.
Christ I very nearly 'went off on one there' and was about to post , what a load of b0ll0cks', but saved it with the mention of civi, half trained, pain in the arrses that cause half the sh1t we have to mop up.
 
#12
So, a technical/academic question. Is it a legal requirement to produce the documents as the person who complains or is this the local police settign a procedure in the vain hope that the half trained civvy on the desk doesn't cock up too many reported incidents?

Either way it is a very dissapoiting and alientating process. I didn't think that Hampshire police could sink lower in my estimation (as a law abiding citizen with no convictions) but each time I deal with them the service is poorer and the treatment more agressive and supicious.
 
#13
spike7451 said:
No your not.
We have been having a on/off dispute with the boyfriend of a neighbour.Where I live is off the road at the bottom of a Cul-De-Sac so therefore my car is parked about 100Meters from my home.This w***** reckons that we are not entitled to park there (despite myself & my neighbour in the Apt below me parking no where near said w*****'s apartment.) & we should be parking in the lay by reserved for the pensioners in the bungalows opposite.
Anyway,one night the w***** comes banging on my door & yelling to me to move my car if I dont want it damaged.So I tell hime to to "F*ck off & get a life".
The next day when I gets home from work,a wheelie bin is lying up against my car door with a nice dent in it.The other bins re up on the pavement out of the road so it seems a bit wierd to me.He's gawping out of the window,almost waiting for my reaction.
Anyway,I reported the suspected vandalism to the PSNI & I got the same reaction from them as you did.It seems to me that this is a way of 'fobbing you off' with a excuse so they dont have to do anything.
Should have reported it to the PSNI as suspect and await the arrival of the EOD team. They will take you seriously then as:

a. It one big fcuk about

b. Any damage sustained from EOD action is claimed back from the Police.
 
#14
A mate did the same thing. He was pissed, drove his car and hit a parked car, causing damage, then drove off.

He thought he got away with it, but someone must have seen and grassed him up because the police wrote to him asking if he was the driver of the car. Mind you, he had 4 weeks to answer yes or no to it, so the police traffic department were not exacly in a hurry to 'get him'.

That said, he faced 'driving away from the scene of an accident' under traffic road act 1988 (or something like that), but he invented a bullsh1t story and got off with the offence, but still admitted to the driving and paid up for the damage.

The police should chase this up..driving away from the scene of an accident without stopping in a safe place is an offence and will stay on a licence for 10 years..like drunk driving.

Wheter the driver drove off because they had no insurance, is down to them, but either way the traffic department should write to her and get an explaination and plead of guilty or not guilty by post.

Driver could deny it and without proof could be hard to punish them, but what they did was out of order.

I hope they get the driver and pay up for your damage.
 
#15
Ref the proof of driving,

Why not punish the owner anyway, even with a small fine. Let's face it this "we don't know who was driving" routine is a gapping loophole.

We KNOW the car was involved, either in a crash or speeding, so just fine the registered keeper as they should know who was driving or who could have been.

If the event was serious enough, say 100 in a 30 zone, confiscate the car.
 
#16
chocolate_frog said:
Ref the proof of driving,

Why not punish the owner anyway, even with a small fine. Let's face it this "we don't know who was driving" routine is a gapping loophole.

We KNOW the car was involved, either in a crash or speeding, so just fine the registered keeper as they should know who was driving or who could have been.

If the event was serious enough, say 100 in a 30 zone, confiscate the car.
And stick it through a shredder.

In fact any offense that now rates more than 3 points should mean that the car goes through the shredder. If the driver isn't the legal owner then it means that the owner has to chase the driver for the value of the car through the courts or if it has been nicked then the insurance has to pay out for the full value of the car and they chase the driver for the cash back.

:twisted:
 
#17
Furryturd said:
So, a technical/academic question. Is it a legal requirement to produce the documents as the person who complains or is this the local police settign a procedure in the vain hope that the half trained civvy on the desk doesn't c*** up too many reported incidents?

Either way it is a very dissapoiting and alientating process. I didn't think that Hampshire police could sink lower in my estimation (as a law abiding citizen with no convictions) but each time I deal with them the service is poorer and the treatment more agressive and supicious.
Yep if you have been issued with an HO/RT1 you still have to produce within 7 days. regardless. Its a poor system but goes back to the days when we didn't have computers etc. Its only recently we can get instant access to Driving Licence/Insurance/MOT details Try phoning hampshire Police asking for the CJU(Criminal Justice Unit) that covers the area were the RTC happened and then ask to speak to the RTC clerk. They should be able to explain fully whats going on, or phone and ask to speak to the Traffic dept.just to explain whats going on. File will probably be allocated to an Area Bobby though and not traffic. be prepared to wait though could be a few months before you hear anything, and make sure you do produce your documents it is still technically an offence NOt to produce within 7 days!!!!!
 
#18
Furryturd said:
So, a technical/academic question. Is it a legal requirement to produce the documents as the person who complains or is this the local police settign a procedure in the vain hope that the half trained civvy on the desk doesn't c*** up too many reported incidents?

Either way it is a very dissapoiting and alientating process. I didn't think that Hampshire police could sink lower in my estimation (as a law abiding citizen with no convictions) but each time I deal with them the service is poorer and the treatment more agressive and supicious.

If a police officer demands to see your driving licence and supporting documents you commit an offence if you do not produce them within 7 days of the receipt of a producer [Used to be HO Form HORT/1]

Assume an investigation has started and then it is discovered that your documents are not in order - where does that legally place the Police involved? What if you are not legally entitled to drive that vehicle by means of disqualification, lack of insurance or whatever?

Better to issue HORT/1s all round, prove ownership from the offing and then pursue an investigation in the proper manner.

I don't know the current legislation but S163 RTA 1976 used to give police officers the necessary powers stop a vehicle being driven on a [council maintained and certain others] road to inspect the driving licence of the driver. No accident or offence need be comitted for this to be done.

As regards reporting the accident I hope you claimed shock as an injury. That clearly puts the onus on the other driver to stop and exchange and to report the accident immediately, or within 24 hours. [S25 RTA 1976 in my time]. They commit a further offence if they do not.

Traffic Law is very complicated. It is not easily understood by the layman and requests for DL, MoT, Ins, RegDocs and VRM's by police are sometimes not received well because the person of whom the requirement has been made knows not of the forthcoming process or points to prove in a subsequent investigation.


Policing, where exposure to members of the public is concerned is about selling the service.

Front Counter duty is very patience trying and stress exists both sides of the counter; more so on the Police side because the personnel dealing are unable to tell problematical and stroppy customers to FO.

This leads to surly attitudes that will present itself in body language and tone of voice, unfortunately detected by decent folk who expect to see Goerge Dixon leaning over the counter and smiling beneficially.

Instead they get to see a copper, if they are lucky, who'd sooner be doing street duties; who hasn't had any relief for refs for 6 hours because no one wishes to do the duty and is well píssed off by the crap that has come in the nick to wind him up. Unfortunately it shows.

If it's not a copper its Civvy Staff that have trained to do Front Counter duties day in, day out.

Not a task I would relish........
 
#19
Furryturd said:
So, a technical/academic question. Is it a legal requirement to produce the documents as the person who complains or is this the local police settign a procedure in the vain hope that the half trained civvy on the desk doesn't c*** up too many reported incidents?

Either way it is a very dissapoiting and alientating process. I didn't think that Hampshire police could sink lower in my estimation (as a law abiding citizen with no convictions) but each time I deal with them the service is poorer and the treatment more agressive and supicious.
I forgot to mention that my mates incident was also in Hampshire, shock horror surprise.
 
#20
let's face it, the police don't care a damn, don't give a damn, about anything that involves them in work ! ... all they like to do is go out on a nice sunny day and point speed cameras at you so the duty sargeant has a nice list of "convictions" at the end of the month so he can prove everyone has been "working hard" ... when my parked mini was written off by a drunken git who ran off (already banned) they assured me, after checking all my details were correct and in order, they would get an order from the court for compensation, like hell they did ... and they wonder why the public don't have any faith in them !!!
 

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