RNoAF NH90 troubles...

give us the ten-second outline as to why Airbus have made a balls of the back end of an aeroplane. they are not amateurs at this business and tend to mostly get it right.
"Let's make a large airlifter with a cargo bay just one pallet wide, then let's fill a third of that space with the non-NATO standard bespoke (we are proud of our family aircraft concept, you know) towing arm that takes three pallets length when we have to take one with us because there are not enough to leave one at each of the places the aeroplane often goes."

"Let's change the original jet design for a super complex prop that creates so much turbulence that the self-unloading paras in the cargo bay can't get out in good order or the additional fuel pods that go in can't refuel the helicopter that is trying desperately to formate on the hose that pokes out through a hole in the ramp!"


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rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
"Let's make a large airlifter with a cargo bay just one pallet wide, then let's fill a third of that space with the non-NATO standard bespoke (we are proud of our family aircraft concept, you know) towing arm that takes three pallets length when we have to take one with us because there are not enough to leave one at each of the places the aeroplane often goes."

"Let's change the original jet design for a super complex prop that creates so much turbulence that the self-unloading paras in the cargo bay can't get out in good order or the additional fuel pods that go in can't refuel the helicopter that is trying desperately to formate on the hose that pokes out through a hole in the ramp!"


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Think the cargo bay is smidge wider than 4 feet (Standard Nato Pallet is 1200x1000)
 
My point is that if you design the back right correctly, you don't take up a third of the available load space with mission essential role equipment (the towing arm) that should be tucked down the side under the seats out of the way (C130) or stashed in its own cubby hole out of the way (C17).


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rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
It carries nine 463L pallets (224cm X 274cm) down the centreline. The freight bay is 4m wide.


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4.1, but that makes it a metre wider than the C130J, so same issue, but with Atlas you have less climbing over things to check, or stroll about the bay.

My point is that if you design the back right correctly, you don't take up a third of the available load space with mission essential role equipment (the towing arm) that should be tucked down the side under the seats out of the way (C130) or stashed in its own cubby hole out of the way (C17).


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,
“If I talk about Beef Island Airport in the British Virgin Islands, the runway length, it's concrete of course, but about 4,000ft long, and we were able to transport in the order of 20 tonnes, compared to the C-130’s seven or eight tonnes.
so that taking up space wasn't an issue, in comparison to legacy aircraft (but it definitely if you expect the aircraft to reach it's full potential, and this should have been resolved) but then it does have pluses that legacy aircraft don't

The aircraft is also receiving praise from the RAF’s loadmaster community – for its next gen qualities and design features. Rear ramp steadying struts and the ability of the aircraft to 'kneel' and reduce the angle of the ramp allowing vehicles and loads to be more easily loaded. This and an integral winch, means forgetting two pieces of essential equipment for the C-130J (an 'elephant's foot' support for the ramp and a winch) is now a thing of the past.

Sgt Andrea Harrison, a Loadmaster on 70 Sqn at Brize, highlighted the automatic load-locking system, which can be used either from a side panel or the loadmasters station as a step-up from the 'charismatic' C-130J she had previously flown. The A400M's wider cargo hold, too, said Sgt Harrison, also allowed for easier checking of loads and pallets, with Loadmasters able to walk around the sides, rather than clamber over the loads.

Another advance over the C-130, she said, was that weight and balance calculations (for say additional cargo along a route), can be added on the fly while in flight, an improvement over the C-130J where the computer would only allow the Loadmaster to make changes while on the ground.
Atlas shoulders the load - Royal Aeronautical Society

So swings and roundabouts.

The towbar issue and the heat loss issue are ridiculous though
 
...The towbar issue and the heat loss issue are ridiculous though
If only these were the only issues; there’s a reason (or rather quite a few) why nobody’s buying the thing.

However, I suggest further debate is moved to the A400M thread (where it’s largely been alluded to previously).

Regards,
MM
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
If only these were the only issues; there’s a reason (or rather quite a few) why nobody’s buying the thing.

However, I suggest further debate is moved to the A400M thread (where it’s largely been alluded to previously).

Regards,
MM
Good idea, @Guns , @ugly could you transfer the a400 post across please
 
Exactly - the Danes pulled the plug on a the NH90-project that was orginally envisioned to be a "pan-Scandinavian aircraft", and did the only sensible thing choosing the Seahawk. The RDAF have ordered eight aircraft IRC. Only the Swedes and we were daft enough to still hang on to this disaster. A political farce from start to the (eventual) finish. The emphasis to choose no-matter-what an European rather than a US aircraft is political hogwash of the first order.
So, why do I believe the MH-60 R Seahawk was a better choice? The Romeo-version of the Seahawk has so far proved to be a success with the Royal Australian Navy.
(Yes, this is a " Lockheed Martin-Sikorsky commercial" but still has valid points nonetheless!)
and Finns
 
Show me an Irish field you can't sink in.
Same same with Merlin, though. When they came into service, MAOTs at Benson were calling us at TacATC to borrow a soil assessment cone penetrometer to measure the firmness of field sites as it needed a California Bearing Ratio of 4 to operate safely, ie quite a bit firmer than the usual muddy field you would find most support helicopters in. Big aircraft with relatively small wheels don't like mud.


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No shortage of soft fields but when a 139 with retractable undercarriage has to fly around for several months of the year with skiboots on, it's burning up a lot of fuel that need not be wasted. The tyres on the 139 are for hard pads only and there were several embarrassing events where the aircraft had to be dug out by hand.
 

Ack-Ack

Clanker
and Finns
Aye; and the Finns are also going to do all the maintenance on the RNoAF aircraft as well. The Finnish company Patria Aviation (guess what – it's partly owned by the Finnish state and the Norwegian company Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace) has landed a 2-year 10.00 million £ deal with the NDMA (Norwegian Defence Materiel Agency).
I guess since the Finns have had a lot of experience with shoddy Russian aircraft they can put up with this s*ite...

The Finnish «Utti Jaeger Regiment» (Special Forces) operates the NH90.
 
Aye; and the Finns are also going to do all the maintenance on the RNoAF aircraft as well. The Finnish company Patria Aviation (guess what – it's partly owned by the Finnish state and the Norwegian company Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace) has landed a 2-year 10.00 million £ deal with the NDMA (Norwegian Defence Materiel Agency).
I guess since the Finns have had a lot of experience with shoddy Russian aircraft they can put up with this s*ite...

The Finnish «Utti Jaeger Regiment» (Special Forces) operates the NH90.
It was nice to see the Finn Army a Aviation for second time @ RIAT last year so here are my photos

Cheers
 

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I mean, what could possibly go wrong with the exchange rate and consequent impact on defence budget ;)
Given that the pound has gained ground against the USD, probably not a lot; against the EUR is a different story, but we weren't ever in the running to buy NH90.
 
That's interesting because the mood music that I had to listen to the other day seemed to suggest that the F-35B and P-8A purchases had so far survived unscathed precisely because they were denominated in USD. Purchases denominated in EUR were heading for the chop.
I (and it seems the SofS!) would definitely disagree. Remember also that purchase of the actual shiny aeroplanes is just one tiny part of each Programme and FOREX will be being felt across the whole TEPIDOIL programmatics.

Regards,
MM
 
I (and it seems the SofS!) would definitely disagree. Remember also that purchase of the actual shiny aeroplanes is just one tiny part of each Programme and FOREX will be being felt across the whole TEPIDOIL programmatics.

Regards,
MM
The presentation that I attended took place at Andover - read into that what you will...
 

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