RN takes a savaging at the hands of Max Hastings

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by msr, Nov 24, 2009.

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  1. msr

    msr LE

    No, the best chance of saving the British couple was while they were still at sea, and it rightly sticks in the nation's craw that nothing was attempted. We understand the legal difficulties and tactical issues.

    Maybe the wind was blowing the wrong way as well, and the ship's cat was off its food. But the upshot was wretchedly unheroic, a million miles remote from the Royal Navy's historic tradition. Nobody made the smallest show of being bold or brave in the face of dramatic wrongdoing.

    Whatever excuses and explanations are offered, it is hard to escape a conclusion that the Navy - in contrast to the British Army - no longer performs like a fighting service.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1230314/A-cowardly-Navy-cautious-SAS-Britains-humiliation-pirate-rabble.html#ixzz0XnNtInPe

  2. The matelots should have deep sixed this tw*t,when they transported him down to the Falklands.
    Regurgitating points other hacks put in print days ago!
    Shite journalism! :roll: shite journalist!
  3. Bollox
    The Royal Navy follows its instructions from Whitehall.
    The instructions might be pointless and counter productive but that's not the fault of the Navy
  4. Ravers

    Ravers LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    As mentioned in a similar thread on RR: Better to have the RN slammed for following orders, sticking to ROE and not doing anything, than watch the RN get slammed for causing the murder of two British citizens.

    Just my two cents, I will scurry back over to RR now.
  5. Christ, what a throbber.

    I knew the Daily Mail printed some prize garbage in order to inflame the masses, but they've surpassed themselves this time. Just when we're maxed out as a military, this fanny pops up and starts spouting his drivel; yeah, it's all about "Supporting the Troops" isn't it? Bellends.

    Oh, and isn't "Max Hastings" an anagram of "Max Sang Sh*t"???????

    The f**king choad........
  6. The man is a shyt. He steals rep. A thief he was in 82 and a thief he is today. His expansive recycled militiary knowledge can be found published in any book bucket shop.
  7. So the RN is cowardly, is it? This is the rabble-rousing, gung-ho Max Hastings at his typically blinkered, fiercely pro-Army anti-everything else, worst. Having 'liberated' Port Stanley single-handed, he has conveniently forgotten which service delivered him to the Falklands and fought and died to protect him en route. Yet, strangely, he sees no role for maritime capability, aircraft carriers, air superiority or much else the RN (or the RAF for that matter) has to offer. His eyes are firmly fixed on 'boots on the ground' to the exclusion of all else required to prepare the ground for them, deliver them, protect them, sustain them in theatre and provide them with vital intelligence. I've said it before and I'll say it again: this rabidly partisan journalist has a baffling hatred of the RN and demonstrates little understanding of its role and capabilities or the restrictions placed on it where maritime constabulary duties are concerned; duties that do not call for, let alone permit, performance as a "fighting force". He is the RN's worst enemy with the possible exception of the similarly embittered Lewis Page.

    The Chandlers' plight in the Indian Ocean had more in common with the Balcombe Street seige than the Altmark affair, including all the possible pitfalls that this implies. On reflection, the pirates were already in the equivalent of a helicopter with their hostages and speeding towards their refuge by the time the armed police arrived on the scene. I'm not sure anyone has enough public goodwill in their account to overcome the ramifications of killing or otherwise causing the deaths of what could be several innocent civilians unless their lives were at serious risk. Look at the national and international furore that arose when an armed policeman shot a single innocent foreigner in a tube train in London, albeit in good faith.

    This is the complex nature of the constabulary role in which the RN so often finds itself today, with all its attendant legal restrictions and penalties. Its superior capabilities as a "fighting force" don't come into the argument when dealing with armed criminals (or IRG border guards for that matter) instead of an 'enemy force'. This won't stop entrenched anti-RN critics such as Max Hastings making a damned good fist of introducing them in order to portray the RN as "cowardly" compared to our troops in Afghanistan. UK and international law decrees that the safety of innocent parties is paramount. Any warship can blast a suspect pirate boat out of the water but, as the Indian Navy discovered last year, it just might contain 15 innocent Thai fishermen tied up below decks. As for selectively taking out the pirates, the French tried that this year and managed to kill the yacht skipper they were 'rescuing'. As I have said before in this context, with friends like that, who needs enemies?

    I'm sure the pirates realise that armed resistance against any warship would be suicidal. However, unlike their equivalents on land, they have the option of 'deep sixing' the paraphenalia of their trade if approached by a boarding party. This will happen whatever 'Stop & Search' measures are in place and make it impossible to differentiate them from innocent fishermen or refugees; I doubt they carry their passports with them. On the plus side, I suspect that the maritime task force has stymied countless attacks in this manner. The big question is, why are the pirates being released to offend again when they are caught 'going equipped for...'? The answer to this lies with our political masters, not the maritime forces in situ.
  8. " I see no signal"

    Nelson, Battle of Copenhagen, 2nd Apr 1801.
  9. So you don't like him either?
  10. Good post, well put.........thanks.
  11. Ive always wondered at Max's allegiance to the boots given he didnt go on the ground in the Falklands unlike the other journo's

    Guilty conscience maybe ??
  12. msr

    msr LE

    All we need is Yokel and I can call 'house!' :)

  13. "Human rights watchdog details the killing of civilians in Iraq by British armed forces and armed groups"

    Amnesty International, 11 May 2004.

  14. And the relevence to today is?
    What do you think would happen if the RN splattered two yachty types across half of the Indian Ocean with 20mm? Against RoE?

    You think Mr Brown would support the decision?
    You think the media would be understanding?

    Don't get me wrong. I firmly believe that the Navy should be given the order to erradicate piracy by whatever means necessary but that lack of will is down to the politicians.
  15. Hastings wrote

    And then writes an article demonstrating the opposite.

    Perhaps Wave Knight arrived too late to have a tactical advantage - pirates and Chandlers too close to each other to let loose with the GPMGs. The capability to conduct opposed boardings resides with SF, not the RFA, not FPGRM, not the RNR Force Protection Team, not the ship's RM detachment (if they've got one), not the NAAFI Manager, not the stoker who did the All Arms Commando Course and the Killick Reg who pump weights together and some assorted volunteers, good lads who have all MacNab's books.

    In his book Armageddon (leafed through it in Waterstones when it came out, ) Hastings managed to provide a new first name for Bittrich and introduced a translator to the McCown/Peiper tête-à-tête. I filed it under badly researched shit and spent the money on beer instead.