RN drops plans for US CEC for T45 and T26

Discussion in 'Royal Navy' started by sunnoficarus, May 23, 2012.

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  1. Well thats it then, RN joins the 'little league' and can do little more than self defende so scrub through all that PR blurb of T45's being death stars sweeping the skies for a hundred miles around clear of threats.
    It should also be borne in mind that the pay off for cutting T45 from 12 to 6 hulls was we'd get the US CEC that would makes the fewer ships far more capable and lethal.


    "UK drops CEC plan as budget pain bites
    The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) has dropped a GBP500 million (USD797 million) plan to acquire the US Navy's (USN's) Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC) for integration into the Royal Navy's (RN's) Type 45 destroyers and future Type 26 frigates. The decision, taken as part of the MoD's PR12 budget planning round, comes after 12 years of study, integration and demonstration activity addressing the planned integration of UK CEC into various RN surface ships "
     
  2. Erm, no. CEC is a nice to have, nothing more.
     
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  3. To add - there are many more capabilities I would rather have than CEC, especially at £500 million.
     
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  4. Bouillabaisse

    Bouillabaisse LE Book Reviewer

    I'm sort of with Sunoficarus on this one. As engagement times shorten and ranges increase the winners will be the ones who can react quickly. CEC gives the edge. For a small navy with a limited number of platforms the ability to maximise the use of those platforms is vital.

    Having said that I suspect the programme may be cancelled but the aspiration is still there.
     
  5. Explain to me how CEC on it's own will achieve any of those things?
     
  6. Way beyond nice to have, its a huge force multiplier especially for a dedicated AAW unit and would give them far more reach.
    Its symptomatic on a RN wde winding back of capabilities. Our much vaunted 'most advanced AAW destroyer in the world', is nothing of the sort. Its better than a T42, but lagging behind an Arleigh Burke and dropping further behind.
    I'm sure as we speak, some MOD wonk is spinning up some dit that the lack of CEC and very long range OTH hand off engagements is actually a wonderful example of UK cleverness, but I'm not buying it.
     
  7. could someone explain what the hell it is first!
     
  8. Its simples, a T26 way up threat can cue and even take the shot for the T45. You can even have your AWaCs take the shot.
    CEC gives you a far bigger and more accurate picture. Knowing exactly were the incoming threat will break your engagement horizon will allow you to have your 80 mile range missile waiting for it. Having a firm and accurate solution from way beyond your engagement envelope is a priceless commodity when dealing with things moving at mach 3.

    The buy off in the reduced T45 buy was we'd get CEC that would allow us to do more with less. Now? We're just getting the less with less and another hard won lesson from 82 gets dumped in the Treasuries bin.
     
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  9. right. so does CEC mean that - for instance - a T45 sat 20 miles off shore would have been able to download the radar picture from an E-2/E-3 flying 40,000ft above them, and use its radar picture to shoot and control its missiles against air targets that it couldn't see due to mountains, or radar horizon?

    or have i securely grasped the wrong end of the stick?
     
  10. If it works, yes.

    As I understand it, your E-3 or whatever would actually be able to launch weapons from your Type 45
    Personally I think its a step to far (but what do I know...) datalink is useful, another platform remotely launching weapons is a whole different kettle of fish
     
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  11. The Royal Navy has been using "Facebook / Twitter for warships" (and aircraft, ground units, etc.), otherwise known as Tactical Data Links (TDLs), for decades. It may not be getting whizzy US CEC in the near future but I doubt it will be putting a man in space either.

    In the meantime, T45s will just have to 'soldier on' with TLDs such as Link 11 and Link 16 for third party target designation among other functions.

    link-16.gif
     
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  12. Apart from the fact we are missing most of the kit in that pretty picture. If we're concentrating on AAW only, that £500 mil can be spent on CROWSNEST and the BMD/Aster60 addition to the T45. Those two will offer real capability to the Fleet. TBMD is the next big topic, especially if you've being paying attention to the A2/AD debate.

    I appreciate CEC has some interesting applications but we lack the systems of systems to make it work properly. Without those, CEC will be a pretty picture, but we've nothing extra to cue a T45. If it can be seen by one T45 on behalf of another, we can pass a Link Track and continue the engagement that way.

    If you're a TAS ape, I'd prefer P-8s, BAMS and an ASROC variant please!
     
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  13. No, it's different. Discussion of how/why is still SECRET, but it's not L16.