Daxx said:Interesting but as with much media, there is insufficient information in the article to establish the base of the (any) argument. Assuming for a moment the implied competence ascertation is correct; I wonder who the BBC thinks should conduct investigations on operations?
pandaplodder said:Only way forward is to take the RMP out of the Army in much the same way as KMar in the Netherlands.
Suffice to say, the main point of the reply is to say: Lap it up suckers, must be all true - after all the man on 'da radio said so. Baaa.
Not just six years. Although NI was very small beer in comparison, it did have it's moments. After Internment we had investigators trapped in inf locations for three days before we could extract them. In two of these, they picked up a spare SLR and joined in the defence.**** said:Regarding Western's points, I couldn't disagree more. The SIB has uniquely met the challenges of investigating crime in an operational environment in the last six years.
What's this 'smoother start'? The investigative side - which is all that a Met CID person could contribute - the Branch goes back to 1939 and before. That is a long start-up period isn't it?The only resource/expertise that has been lacking is manpower. Of course if we could have borrowed a couple of Chief Inspectors from the Met Murder Squad we might have had a smoother start, though I doubt it.
But at least the existing investigators would have had an opportunity to have received training in warlike conditions and the excuse of environment would not have been so readily available. How many inf blokes say from within a FOB "oh this is frustrating/difficult/scary"?The environments SIB was operating in would have been alien to them as well and they would have suffered the same frustrations of getting to scenes, following through on enquiries etc.
All the more reason therefore to have expected them to be adapted to the environmental/access etc conditions and done better than they seem to have done.Importantly and contrary to popular belief the SIB does have experience of investigating serious crime including murder â BFG, Kosovo, Bosnia, Cyprus, Falklands, GW 1 etc. The organisation has not just been investigating GBH for the last 60 years or so.
Easy to say - rather ther is no other agency - full stop We have no way empirically to measure what any other agency might do. But - were there not some RAFP made available? Did they deploy as investigators and how many jobs of theirs attracted adverse or worse comment?There is no other agency in the UK who could have achieved what SIB has achieved.
HMIC 1 and HMIC 2 gave just the same opportunity of mistake correction and re-org improvement but those opportunities seem to have been overblown and disappointing respectively.Of course there have been mistakes but most importantly the organisation has learnt from them and moved on. This should be the cornerstone of any organisation and self criticism is an important part of learning and making sure mistakes are not repeated.
Someone should have recognised that the sandy places were not going to be a walk in the park. Someone should have recognised that especial attention was critical in re selecting those going there so that known fcuk-uppers were kept away.It could be argued that the UK and the USA military were not fit for purpose in fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan if you listen to one sided media coverage. However, as can be seen in Iraq lessons were learnt and we move slowly and painfully to a more stable environment. Additional resources are now being thrown at Afghanistan.
The operational tempo issue is key. Unless you have worked in the environment you will not understand. Quite clearly it will not always be possible to conduct investigations of serious crimes in a hostile and dangerous environment in the same way as you would in the UK. This does not stop the SIB from trying. There is a danger that one or two fcuk ups are used to suggest, as is happening in this forum, that the entire organisation is unfit for purpose and the 99% of jobs that have been investigated fully, properly and professionally are simply forgotten about.
I for one am immensely proud of the work the lads and lasses have achieved.