RLC pride

Discussion in 'RLC' started by stacker1, Jan 7, 2008.

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  1. I moved this to a new thread because Qman was getting annoyed his was getting hijacked.

    MY bold
    The bits about me going outside the wire is not to big me up its just to prove I don't sit on my arse in a storeshed all the time, but I still don't see myself as a steely eyed killer of the night either.
     
  2. As most of the basic soldiering is done at Phase One and taught by RLC soldiers, I am curious who you want teaching our Soldiers??? Or are you saying you want a further package nailed onto Phase Two, of infantry tactics taught by Infanteers??
    How about ranges? taught on a course but learnt from book??? whats the problem with that.
    Yes we have problems But what are YOU as a member of the Corps doing about it?
    Corps Pride comes from the people within, showing our good points and fixing our bad ones.

    Have also been on tour and as yet have never seen a RLC soldier who cant do his job and have seen quite a few who can turn there hand very sucessfully to other jobs as well.
     
  3. Stacker, i think some of your views maybe due to unfortunate Units you have been posted to. But i question what type of Infantry training you have been given, pre-deployment, that wasnt of the correct sort?
    Im sure Bottleofsmoke can confirm that the training given on OPTAG, is from experienced soldiers?
    If your Unit decides to hold "in-house" training, then its up to SNCO's and Officers to ensure correct training is given. But i do agree that certain people can get carried away and become Gunny Highways "this is a AK47, the preferred weapon of your enemy"!! :cry:
     
  4. I am not saying that we are training to go toe to toe with anybody, what i am saying, is that to enable the bayonets to go have a fight then they need capable Log support with them.

    Now while we are "supporting" them i would not wish for myself or any member of my Sect/Troop/Sqn to be either a passenger or baggage for that fighting unit to give up assets to defend us. So if the fight comes your way you should be capable enough to deal with it.

    I personally would like to have the confidence in my own skills / drills and tactical knowledge to be able to look after my blokes and myself in any situation. Maybe then you might fight the reaction to run around like the headless chicken you mentioned.
     
  5. I agree with you, Stacker, but certain members of our Corps do have aspirations of being the next author of warry stories, whereas others are quite content to do the job that they get paid for, and some just love pie-eating comps and sitting on their collective arrses doing feck all. I must admit I got downgraded for 2 yrs due to a major set of fractures, but soon reached the level of fitness required to do the job again and never really considered myself to be a steely eyed killer either, but took an interest in the soldiering side as well as trade.
     
  6. Right lets think about what happens on a practise section attack (with blanks) in the RLC. 1 cpl 1 L/cpl 6 toms pepper pot to the target,(normally if someone important is watching we have have someone behind us "Guiding us") we get to the target, kill the enemy, get in all round defence, do a mag/casualty check then its move out. Great except in real life things don't go according to plan what happens if the section commander goes down? is he dead? injured? fallen over and knocked himself out? does the 2i/c continue the attack does he go to the aid of the commander? are the enemy stronger than you expected? none of these questions are ever addressed because we just do the basic and go home.
    Ive seen lads getting bollocked for not knowing the 4 markmanship principles word for word and yet come range time they are the ones hitting the targets, all the ones the can parrot phrases of the top of their heads we are sat around for hours waiting for them to reshoot.
    To answer your questions I wouldn't mind see infantry teach RLC soldiers infantry skills in Basic training at least recruits would know that the intructors have done it for real
    Ranges I don't see a problem with an APWT (with SA80)is fairly gerneric within the army.
    You ask what I do, Well I try my hardest to look after the good lads that come from training, the ones that are always on exercise, always on guard, always doing PT. However when they want to sign off because they are doing all the work where as other lazy gits can't do it because they are a biff/single mother/muslim/unfit to carry weapons and i have seniors/officers who don't care because they are not man enough to weed this tossers out, I find it hard to encourage them not to sign off as I don't have the answers to why its like that. (And if anyone knows the answer feel free to say)
    You are right about showing our good points ( I fully aknowledge there are some great loggies but there are 20000 of us and we should do better) and fixing our bad, However no-one ever seems to fix our bad points we just seem to leave them.
    Where you said you have yet to see a loggie who couldn't do his job I have been on tour where suppliers can't even drive a landrover because they were not converted before they deployed, My regiment were running Jcab courses in herrick because they didn't bother training anyone before they left.
     
  7. But that sort of last minute training is done by all arms and not just ours. Bear in mind, the Infantry soldiers job is to do Infantry type stuff. The job of a PetOp, Supplier, AT etc is to PetOp, Supplier, AT. But on top of that he has to do those inf type things on Ex/BCamps to enable him to do his soldiering bit. Now you stated the text book Sect Attack, well believe me, the basic Infantry soldier, in training, will do the exact same training. In his Unit and Cadres he will improve and "spice" up those drills. We dont have the need or the time to do that, thats what the Infantry are there for, but at least carrying out the text book basics, we can do the minimum required...ie keep us alive??
    Time/Money/Troop Availability nowadays stop us doing anything other than text book training, unless you are deploying, but even then why try and make us into Infantry when there is no need.
     
  8. The optag training I got from the infantry was spot on. but it is limited due to time contraint. However before we went there I bought some belt webbing (as the RLC seem to think we only need 3 pouches maximum) I spoke to some infantry lads for some advice the said get 2 magazine pouches because you carry a shit load of rounds. So I and a few other lads duly bought some. Some of our war expert officers/Sncos sneered at us for having two mag pouches and for having belt rig when chest rig is so much better (I know for drivers it is better) Anyway on one of the lecture stands is a bootie who promptly says belt rig is the way forwards and make sure you have 2 mag pouches, There was a deafening silence from our lot, no-one told this bootie that he is obviously talking out of his arse that the RLC knows best.
    As for the sickies/fat slobs they didn't actually do much if anything physical on the training. So why was I crawling through the mud while they were stood around having a chat were the Taliban going to accept their sick chits and just fight the fit soldiers?
    I was downgraded for 3 years in that time I had to go to Lt-col to get permission to deploy to Oman and telic one what really use to piss me off was trying to get physio appointment only to find he was fully booked with people who make Rik waller look thin. Why does the RLC keep them? Why does the RLC premote them? Why can a fit person fail an MPC/MPCA course for not doing a physical activity right yet the biff doesnt have to do it at all? I know people who have geniune injuries and I do think allowances should made and that they should be looked after but lets be fair there are far more useless biffs than geniune cases. Its great having to deal with a tom who been Agaied because his shorts are to long and the person who agaied him hasn't seen his toes since he was a recruit.

    I've been on more than a few RLC infantry style exercises and we have had more than enough time to practise the correct drills we don't because the people instructing don't know them. so we just waste our time? Its not the minimum it just the wrong info. Why are we still taught to shout en guarde when we do bayonet practise? If i had the misfortune to have to stick a blade in someone I wont be saying anything because I don't want to attract his or his mates attention if anything I going to try and stab him in the back. We do it because thats how it is in the book.
    As I said earlier some of my guys couldn't carry out their trade properly because we are to busy getting ticks in boxes.
    I don't want to be infantry that was one of my points although the correct basics wouldn't go amiss . To many people think they are the next David Stirling and spout bullshit to young lads that about the correct procedure. Hardly instilled pride in the corps does it?. The lads look around and think fuck this I'm signing off.
     
  9. I was downgraded for 3 years in that time I had to go to Lt-col to get permission to deploy to Oman and telic one what really use to urine me off was trying to get physio appointment only to find he was fully booked with people who make Rik waller look thin. Why does the RLC keep them? Why does the RLC premote them? Why can a fit person fail an MPC/MPCA course for not doing a physical activity right yet the biff doesnt have to do it at all? I know people who have geniune injuries and I do think allowances should made and that they should be looked after but lets be fair there are far more useless biffs than geniune cases. Its great having to deal with a tom who been Agaied because his shorts are to long and the person who agaied him hasn't seen his toes since he was a recruit.[/quote]

    I had to ask to be upgraded as I was pissed off with the fact that I had missed out on 2 yrs promotion. I had chefs who worked with me who got promoted only because they knew the trade and not on the fitness side as it was covered over by bosses, but when it came to field exercises, I got jiffed all the time and was encouraged by the guys to take an interest in the jobs they done, eg Engineers, REME etc, hence the interest in the greener side of life.
     
  10. Im guessing your a JNCO, if you are then i commend you for your pro-active attitude etc. Maybe higher up in the food chain you get, you can have a hand in improving things that are wrong, like you say.
     
  11. I was only a private, am out now, but I used to volunteer for stuff and try to get others interested.
     
  12. Saintstone, sorry mate i was replying to Stacker. :wink:
     
  13. My mistake.
     
  14. You might not want to be infantry, however you are a soldier first, if you know the basics being taught are wrong, then take your section to one side and instrust them in the correct manner. Maybe the blokes that you see as wanting to be David Stirling are actually doing this? Maybe they are doing what all good NCO's do and coach, encourage and correct?

    Lets face it, blokes will come to a lot more harm by not knowing correct battle skills and drills when they need them, than suffering the inconvenience of having to learn to drive a JCB on tour.

    It seems to me that you have a chip on your shoulder about your unit because your vision of the RLC is certainly not mine!
     
  15. Soldier first is just something that gets said to make the RLC seem warry I'm amazed at the amount of loggies who don't tell infantry that the RLC are soldiers first possibly because the infantry would chin them.
    As I said before we are not getting taught correctly we get told one thing then someone else gives us a lesson and in completly contridicts what the first bloke said, the majority of skills and drills we learn are toss. How many instructors in the RLC have battle experiance? Hardly soldier first is it?
    As for instructing my section A: I have limited knowledge gained from when I have been attached to the infantry so I could be wrong in doing so I rather the expert taught us and B: You don't get a chance we are to busy practising our faultless infantry skills.


    As for the Jcab I never said any thing about it being an inconvenience to us might have been an in convienience to units who wanted their store though. its a part of our job that we should have done long before we deployed. We were restricted in our work because we were not trained.
    Do you think its right that some RLC (stores)couldn't drive a landrover and yet deployed? (and yes it was part of their job)
    Do you think its right that a sqn of 160 can only deploy 75 on a 100% exercise?
    Do you think its right sick chits exempt you part of the promotional courses?
    Do you think it right that officers turn a blind eye to the workshy tossers on the shop floor and let the decent toms shoulder the burden.(who sign off at the first chance)

    I have been to several units and some are better than others but they are all mainly getting worse, Nothing to do with a chip on my shoulder, I've met officers I would defend to the death as well as a great many senior ranks I would gladly buy a beer for and toms who better than me sadly their numbers are getting fewer.
    Corps pride? Not at the moment
    If your vision if different than mine I wish I was at your unit.