RLC drivers who cant drive, whats the point of them?

Discussion in 'RLC' started by APSED, Oct 13, 2007.

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  1. I am at an RLC unit in Germany. It is unbelievable how many RLC drivers there are who can't drive military vehicles. Some due to rules on on age and time spent in Germany, loads that have been here ages but are not fam'd up or converted and a lot are banned for drink driving etc.
    We asked for a driver to come over to pick up a truck last week. An RLC private came over, we asked if he was a driver and he said yes. When we told him to take such and such vehicle over to his squadron and he then told us he couldn't because he was banned for drink driving! What's the point of keeping these f**ckers in the army. Their trade is a driver and that is what they are paid to do, but they can't. They are just sitting round at their unit doing f**k all but waste our time and money.
    Also there are so many rules and paperwork now before you are allowed to drive half the regiment can't drive military vehicles even though they have licenses and FMT 600's. We are having to use lance jacks and even full screws sometimes to cover duty driver jobs that are supposed to be done by privates, cause they are now saying you have to over 21 and had 6 months experience in Germany. Why f**king recruit drivers under 21 then. It is crap like this that is messing the army up and pissing experienced soldiers off as they are doing duties when there are plenty of new guys(through no fault of their own) doing f**k all.
  2. Make your mind up which forum you're going to post this in!!!!!
  3. I take it you've been pinged for a duty then. You could always ask the drivers to help you dry your eyes.
  4. These rules you speak of?

    I am not aware of any legal requirement for a MILITARY Driver to be over 21 and have 6 months in Germany to drive a vehilce of any class. It must be a unit thing.

    Sounds like your Driver Training Wing/Troop need to get a grip and start banging out some courses.

    As for Drink Drivers, if there is no other way to employ them (and to be fair if they are a Driver by trade this may be difficult) then they need to be employed gainfully. Full time stagging on in the Guard room is an option. Day on, Day off through the week, and the weekend off (for long term bans) seems quite reasonable (and would help keep them sober if they were beginning to depend on the booze), and allows those who can drive to stay in the garages and, well, er drive.

    If the Drink Driver doesn't like the sound of that, give him P45, gain height, turn to the right and fcuk off sharpish (we'll box your kit and send it home).

    In other trades (and I have seen it) I have seen Soldiers be dropped from Band 3 to Band 1 (old school pay scales) because driving was part of their job. They still did the same job, but without driving.

    It isn't punishing twice. I could hardly see Eddie Stobart holding on to one of his drivers in the HQ Office who was banned for drink driving, so they are lucky they are not out on their ear.

    PS, I hate drink drivers. If I had my way a conviction for DD would = discharge that very day (for the worst offenders ie 2 pints and a drive or a second conviction). If I was PM it would involve a permanent ban on driving - time to get a bike and a bus pass.
  5. Also worthy of consideration is my assertion that RLC Drivers do not actually spend the balance of their time actually driving in any case. The role of the Driver trade extends much further than the simple operation of road vehicles. They also conduct other wholesome activity such as sweeping vehicle parks and painting things. ;-)
  6. What are all these new rules and regs preventing dvrs from doing their jobs?
    As far as I knew, all a driver needed was a licence, an FMT 600 and a set of keys. When I went to BFG, I was converted to driving there in my first week and even before that I could move vehicles within camp.
    As for the muppets who have lost their licence, I'd agree with previous statement. Day on Day off barrier technician but I raise it to a half day on their day off spent in the servicing bay pit up to the arrse in oil and cr@p. Can't let them forget how to maintain their vehicles, they may have to drive them again one day.
  7. To drive military vehicles in Germany, you have to:

    Hold a valid driving licence for the category of vehicle

    Pass the European Matrix test for military drivers in Germany and the Benelux, more commonly known as the “Tick test”

    Have passed the relevant modules of the GS driver course and have been formally familiarised on the vehicle type in question. For most professional military drivers (in Corps) the generic part of this course happens at Leconfield as part of phase 2 training and the driver leaves having been familiarised on at least Landrover and DAF (and in some cases DROPS).

    Carry out practical familiarisation training on all types of roads by day & night over a distance of approx 40KM (more commonly known as “gaining your hours”). This includes white fleet, however the CO has certain waivers dependant on the age and experience of the individual

    Only a DLAI or GS driving instructor (on a route approved by the DLAI) can carry out familiarisation on both a vehicle type and on road driving. Incidentally you can gain your hours whilst familiarising on a vehicle type

    There are no age restrictions (except for D licence and DPV’s in a passenger carrying role).

    There is a new DIN on GS driver training that came out in September, however, the rules are much the same.

    The above is put in place to protect both the driver and the unsuspecting public and is not hard to achieve (except in the Infantry and other units that don’t get the luxury of the 2 week GS package at Leconfield and have to train their own from scratch), if the unit has proper systems in place

    All the above is contained in JSP 800, SOBA(G)s and various DINs

    By the way I fully agree D&D’s should be fully utilised on camp duties and have any trade pay stopped and revert to a Class 4 soldier
  8. Why have Drivers do those jobs when you can mis-employ other people to do it (Pet Ops for instant)
  9. You're right of course. Pet Ops are entirely misemployed sweeping parks and painting stuff. Ordinarily, they aren't trusted with such technically demanding endeavours. However, operational commitments elsewhere are taking their toll and these jobs have to be done by somebody...
  10. Totally agree with this sentiment, like in the REME lots of the younger lads who have got driving bans lose the tech pay and have a two year promotion ban. Im not trog bashing here but it does get on my nerves when I phone for a driver to come down the LAD and he doesnt know how to/or allowed to move a vehicle. This isnt just on the RLC though and is an epedemic acrss the Army as was proved recently on an exercise where all the seniors drove the LAD vehicles as the CFN arent fammed :roll: .

    On an exercise abroad recently with the RLC it was down to seniors/full screws to drive the vehicles in transport regiment because the drivers could only drive DROPS. A bit of mis management in some respects but Im informed it takes between 2-6 weeks to train an individual up to be fammed on an individual piece of equipment why :? . In most units were snowed under with work, tasks and op training what ever happened to the drive a vehicle with a competant person sat next to you, get hit with a big stick if you fcuk up and learn the hard way approach of the RCT. My knuckles still bear the scars.

    Imagine if they did the same in civvy street ..... you cant drive that truck unless your fammed on it. The transport network would grind to a halt with the ammount of different trucks out there having to be fammed on.
  11. Can't wait for the MANs to come in.....
  12. The answer is yes and no.

    All drivers of military “Green Fleet” have to be GS Driver trained and familiarised on each vehicle they drive.

    The soldier has to achieve several modules for each specific vehicle, some of the modules are generic like documentation, some similar like BUI (first parade) however (and I think all drivers will agree), each individual vehicle behaves significantly differently on the road and has differing characteristics.

    Some Corps are very lucky (RLC, RA, RE, AAC for instance) in that the GS package is carried out in phase 2 training for their driver trades and the units only have the training burden of familiarisation. This will take a different amount of time dependant on the previous driving experience of the soldier

    Some units are less fortunate and everything from licence acquisition (whether by spare capacity courses, contract trg or unit instructors), to completing the GS driver phase is a unit responsibility. DLAI & GS Instructor courses are not that easy to come by and only DLAI & GS instructors can carry out on road familiarisation.

    Familiarisation rules have always existed, in the past however, Class 1 JNCO’s could get authorisation to carry out the training. This is no longer the case in the regular army (rules differ for TA and the other services)

    Gone are the days (thankfully) of ‘you hold a C+E jump in that truck’. I would suggest no one would dream of putting someone who obtained a track licence on a CVR(T) in a Challenger 2 and saying “crack on”. Well a DAF and an OSHKOSH (same licence) are as diverse as the ‘Tanks’

    Edited to add.

    There is also specialist driver training on certain vehicles, these are generally longer more formal courses
  13. The army is no different to civvy street in that it's drowning under a flood of regulation. You have to be certified to go for a crap almost. In my time in the army if you had a licence you drove what needed driving and if you didn't have a licence and a driver was needed yuo were given a permit and you drove (VMs did anyway). I don't think there were any more RTAs then than there are now.

    Edited for worse typing than my driving.
  14. Bearing in mind there was a HGV 3, 2 & 1 system in the “Good old Days” there where some regulations in place.

    Now we can send kids to Leconfield, teach them how to point, give them a C+E and TECHNICALY put them on the road in 40 Tons of vehicle carrying 20,000 litters of fuel. At this stage some of them may not own their own car and have well less than 100 hrs of behind the wheel experience.

    In the old days your level of HGV generally came with your rank and experience, therefore the bigger trucks where mainly driven by the older soldiers.

    More or less RTA’s? Every fatal RTA is a tragedy, I for one welcome any measure that proves an individuals capability before they are let loose on the world.
  15. This was before the introduction of HGV licences in about 1967. And I agree with you that any RTA is bad news , my point is that I don't think all the regulation has reduced it noticeably. Te problem is that most army drivers are young men and young men drive like young men, always have and always will.