RIP marriage?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Lucky_Jim, May 31, 2006.

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  1. When civil partnerships came into being there were howls of outrage from some quarters. One response was to point out that no-one was being disadvantaged by this because it was just offering homosexuals the chance to obtain the same rights as married heterosexuals.

    Now it seems that;

    Full story here

    If this goes ahead will it also apply to homosexuals? Will we see acrimonious court cases over custody of the tastefully coordinated furniture and hand-woven Peruvian peasant smocks?

    But seriously, it seems that the status of marriage has been so eroded over the past few decades that it hardly seems worthwhile. Am I being old-fashioned or does anyone else mourn the passing of another cornerstone of our culture?
  2. New Labour decided to cull marriage when they came to power (apparently it was the older ones who were all for the liberation of everything in the 60's who pushed it through, the younger generation of Labour politicians were all pro marriage!). I don't think this proposal will work out to well, especially as I've had quite a few friends shafted by gold digging witches in the past who successfully took them for lots even though they were not married. Give it as few years of co-habiting people suddenly losing 'their' house and possessions due to a devious other half and there will be cries' of 'Not fair' heard throughout the land.
    As a married guy with kids though, I do dismay at the way it is going. All evidence says that (married) family units are essential for children, yet the govt is pushing for more single parents and future welfare leaches. Now if only one party would actually declare its' support for the institution of marriage......
  3. Luckily never managed to get myself into a position where marriage was going to cause me a drama. Although the current girlfriend has been dropping a few hints :(

    However, i quite fancy the route my mate has gone down. He has a cracking lass and between them can't see the point in getting married when everyone will eventually have the same rights married or otherwise. He sold his flat and moved in with her, made a tidy profit and spent a load of it on a nice fast car. They are more than happy and intend on spending the twenty grand, that most people these days seem to spend on a wedding do, on good living, champagne every monday and fabulous holidays. Just wish I could find a lass that has the same attitude.

    As far as i can see it the santity of marriage counts for diddly squat these days as standards and values have crashed to the floor in a burning heap.
  4. The standards of marriage and others have dropped through the floor - true. But not everywhere in the country. There are still areas outside the cities that people do marry and stay together. Indeed, it is this nuckeus (classed as middle England) that is battling hopelessly against the apparatchniks in London who want a free for all so they can sc##w/b###er/whatever they want and not be held up for scrutiny by ordinary people's standards.

    Interesting though, that they all say 'marriage is just a piece of paper' 'doesn't mean anything' etc until the wheel falls off then both sides are trying to hold onto or scr## the other partner for whatever they can.

    I always remember that SAS lad's widow wanting his pension yet although they had a child she felt they didn't need to get married as it wasn't that important. Once he popped his clogs it was, as she wanted the money. Interesting these people fall short of making a commitment yet want all the other trimmings and security that goes with it.

    This is simply another effort by the trendy set to get a free for all without the restrictions of law or the taxman. Why is it that other countries are trying to reverse the decline yet we do our damnedest to accelerate the procedure? Probably because the politicians and intelligentsia have the morals of alley cats but don't like being compared with the poor s#ds on sink hole estates who are in the same boat but without the money or advantages the others possess :cry:
  5. I've seen enough fcuked-up heterosexual marriages in my life and am cynical about the status of marriage as the idealized institution people claim it is, either past or present. It couldn't get any worse where I'm from, and that's just the way straight people treat marriage. Believe me, if gays want to take a crack at it via "civil partnership" or whatever, then I say let 'em knock themselves out. (That, of course, has not been stopped me going ahead with my marriage to the Tankie...hope springs eternal and all that. :D )

    But I will say this: one very strong argument for legalizing your union is in the event that you, or your partner, dies suddenly. I know it's not something people want to think about, but it does happen.

    The cousin of a friend back home was in the same situation your friend above was: great relationship, bought some stuff together, two strong incomes, flash cars, no kids, no reason to get married and complicate things, right? Well, unfortunately her partner was killed in a motorcycle accident. And sudden death being the way it it, it transformed his family into a complete nightmare. The tip-off was when his mother told the hospital not to let her give any input into his treatment or his last wishes because she was neither his "wife" nor his kin. OK, whatever, she was in too much shock to argue and didn't wonder why his formerly cordial mother had turned into a b!tch.

    But a week later, his parents and brother basically marched into their home and said she had to leave because the property belonged to them now, as well as everything of his that was in it. She protested that she'd made half the payments and they'd bought everything together, to no avail. The marshal came and took her out of the house while they filed suits against each other. Her joint bank account was frozen. IRA or pension? Forget it. (He'd done a will, apparently, but never managed to get it changed to give her power of attorney before the accident.) Cue the harrassment, abusive phonecalls, etc. to try to get her to drop the suit. It's been going on a couple of years now, and they are still in court; she has no house, only a portion of her savings and no partner.

    People say it's just a piece of paper, but that piece of paper means a whole lot in the eyes of the law and the banks.
  6. Quite right TY. On an associated financial theme I retire today on a reasonable pension. As things stand should I die, Mrs Jim (who isn't Mrs Jim in the legal sense until this August) gets the square root of nothing. However once we're married, in the event of my death she becomes entitled to half my pension - for life.

    I also happen to believe that marriage means a lot more than a piece of paper. I'd like to think it signifies commitment to a relationship, and if you're prepared to go without the trimmings (Stag party in Prague, wedding and honeymoon in the Dominican Republic) it doesn't have to cost thousands. A small, dignified register office ceremony is fine for us.
  7. But if the Government give the same legal powers to a longstanding partner as you have if you are married, then getting married for the purpose of the provision of wealth to your spouse kinda goes out the window somewhat. I agree that marriage should demonstrate the commitment to each other and I am old fashioned at heart. But i can see the attraction to not getting married and saving a bob or two provided that my other half had the same control over the finances should I depart this mortal coil.
  8. Marriage is definately not all that, sorry but what happened to just accepting you both love each other and are happy with where you are? You don't need a ring and a bit of paper to tell you that. People nowadays put too much focus on material confirmation rather than being confident about not only your own feelings but your partners too. You talk of marrriage as if it is some mystical force that puts all worries aside and stops any deviating, when in reality it represents nothing more than money, power and limitations.

    With divorce rates rising maybe we should be looking at other ways to show commitment, rather than jumping down the aisle with quite obviously the wrong person. It's not that we've lost our beliefs, it's that we've gained more independance and ego, more and more people refusing to live an unhappy life and calling it quits rather than getting their heads together and trying to make it work and pretend everything is okay.

    Marriage today is part of our culture just as it was 50 years ago, however it's interpretation has evolved. Today marriage is seen as more of a 'next step' instead of being the last, and with so much media coverage whether it be through films, books, current affairs, talk shows, soaps, music, radio or advertisements re-enforcing a life where anything is possible is it any wonder todays society are acting they way they are?

    Nothing stays the same, as long as society evolves so too will it's values and traditions, there is nothing wrong with adapting which is precisely what we are doing.
  9. I'm all for equal rights, but I laughed my arse off at Ricky Gervais in his Politics stand-up video. He was talking about the Gay Rights march and all the people campaigning for equality for 16 yr olds to have gay sex. He then said "I don't recall seeing many 16 year old lads there". Absolutely right though - it was all middle aged blokes campaigning for the right to bugger children, it certainly wasn't 16 yr old kids pleading for their freedom!`
  10. Most of the arguments for marriage here seem to revolve around financial security for ones spouse in the event of ones death. The arguments against seem to revolve around financial loss for the couple and the risk that one could get screwed over by ones spouse should the marriage go belly up. Now im not a laywer or a solicitor but surely a well worded will on either side of the relationship should cure both these arguments? If one half of the couple pass away then the will would allow them the same rights as a widowed spouse but if you wish to break up you can simply change your will to make sure that you receive whats yours when you do split up? either way its all the advantages of marriage with none of the downfalls, financially speaking.

    It seems to me that marriage has become a legality and has nothing to do with beliefs nowadays but as already said culture has to evolve as everything else does. Drawing comparisons with natural selection: if we do not accept the developments in culture and evolve with them then the result will not be a good one
  11. Seems good to me, hearing that marriage is dead. Less stress. Live the life !!!

    Nurse, tell my wife I am too ill to talk to her !!!!!!!
  12. I definitely hear you and Hescoheed about this, in terms of it becoming a semantic difference once that happens...I think the problems in this sort of thing, at least in the States, are that not all states or judges are inclined to look at it the same way. Next-of-kin laws are pretty aggressively enforced, especially when there's money involved, and judges are sometimes reluctant to set precedent on ruling outside the legal/religious definition of "marriage." Either way, if you or your partners' family are greedy, they can contest it in court and it can be agonizing for all parties.

    And once you're that financially tied into each other, to the point where it's going to be a legal mess to extricate yourself anyway, why not just jump the broom? :)

    Speaking of which, I guess you could also mention the actual ceremony of marriage as L_J, I'm not planning to put us into £15,000 debt to put on a huge virgin-bride "victory party." I'm too old for that sh!t and I can think of a lot cooler things to spend our money on. But at the end of the day, the essence of marriage is supposed to be the commitment you make to each other in the presence of witnesses. Religious or otherwise.

    I really like the idea of the ketubah, the Jewish marriage contract. They can be beautifully decorated art pieces, and they're displayed prominently in the home as a reminder of what your marriage entails. Although the Tankie and I are terminally Gentile, I like the idea of a contract you see every day that honors the spiritual commitment instead of the above-mentioned financial entanglements. I don't know if it would help, but it seems like a nice thing.
  13. If your going to live together rather than get married, then it makes sense for both parties to make a will at the very beginning to avoid the scenario's of partners being left homeless etc. However nice the partners family may seem and however well you may get on with them, when it comes to property and money, people can become very nasty very quickly and morals can quickly be forgotten.
    I agree that partners should have the same rights as married couples and gay couples. As said previously, marriage is but a piece of paper, why spend say ten grand on a wedding, feeding people you rarely see and some you probably can't stand the sight of, when that money could be spent on furnishing the home and a couple of nice holidays?
    Furthermore, how hypocritical is marriage? You enter a church that the only other time you would go into IS to be seen dead in, then you vow to God, who you dont believe in that you will love, honour and forsake all others, yeah right mate, how many marriages break up because the opposit happened?
    Then if thats not enough, you pay a fortune being ripped off by some greasy lawyer to get a divorce a few years later.
    Carry on 'living in sin' i say and spend your hard earned cash on enjoying being alive. :D
  14. Just a quick comment, having a legal contract between yourself and your partner and wills citing each other as NOK, power of attorney etc. won't matter to institutions such as your pension provider, who will no doubt cite the only beneficiary in the event of your death as being your spouse. Marriage is a legal binding as well as a romantic one, thus I consider legal partnerships for heterosexual couples as re-inventing the wheel.

    When it comes to making a decision whether to marry, a lot of people claim that they can’t afford it. That argument is tosh – I know people who’ve married on less than what a good night out costs - what couples can’t necessarily afford is the pantomime that most modern weddings have become. As for the 'free spirits' argument, if you've chosen the right partner, marriage of itself shouldn't make the act of living with your partner any different.
  15. Unless you're talking about 'free spirits' in the context of the actual which case, budget correctly, suck it up, don't be a chav tw@t and don't charge your friends and family for drinks just because you couldn't afford the Barbie wedding you wanted any other way. :x