Riots: Cameron under attack

PM's reaction to the riots was

  • Switf and effective

    Votes: 2 2.6%
  • Not ideal but adequate

    Votes: 17 22.1%
  • Not bad but with many mistakes

    Votes: 6 7.8%
  • The reaction was weak and much delayed

    Votes: 37 48.1%
  • Mr.Cameron failed completely and must retire

    Votes: 15 19.5%

  • Total voters
    77
#1
Riots: Cameron under attack - Crime, UK - The Independent

David Cameron appeared increasingly isolated last night after senior police officers, MPs and even the Conservative Mayor of London united in a call for him to reconsider police cuts in the face of four days of sustained rioting.

In an attempt to regain the political initiative the Prime Minister had declared that a police "fightback" was under way, and that water cannon were being made available at 24 hours' notice. But senior police chiefs said these would be ineffectual and the real question was not whether they could cope with the current disturbances, but whether they would be able to deal with similar civil disturbances in future with thousands fewer officers.
...
The Labour leader, Ed Miliband... have expressed alarm that Mr Cameron has positioned himself "on the wrong side of the argument".
...
"Mr Cameron only has a couple of days to prove he has this under control," said one senior Tory backbencher. "If he can't do that then he is in serious trouble."

Last night a group of London Labour MPs including the party's deputy leader Harriet Harman met the Home Office minister James Brokenshire and called on him to urgently rethink the scale of the cuts. "It is a big priority for Londoners," she said. "The police are much needed. We must not see numbers cut back."

In stronger language than he has so far used, Mr Cameron branded pockets of UK society as sick.
How would you estimate mr.Cameron's reaction to the riots?
 
#2
Like any current politician, rhetoric without the promise of deeds.

I daresay when we've swept up the glass some people might find him interesting and relevant again.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
DC waited until the riots were over and then ponced around pretending to be tough. In my view the riots spread, first across London and then across the country because there was visible evidence on TV that rioters and, more particularly looters get clean away with it. that was because of the 'stand back' policy of the Metropolitsan Police which MUST have come from the top. If the Home Secretary had a smidgin of a sense of honour she would have resigned on Sunday morning and the boss of the Met likewise.

As it is the best DC can do is to say that water cannon are available at 24 hrs notice. Nice of the next lot of rioters to wait.
 
#5
I would like to have seen the result if anyone had tried this on in Moscow!
David "wishy washy" Cameron is just the latest in a long line of leaders without the guts to act without consulting teams of people that he can later blame if the press don't look upon his decisions favourably.
 
#6
I would like to have seen the result if anyone had tried this on in Moscow!
David "wishy washy" Cameron is just the latest in a long line of leaders without the guts to act without consulting teams of people that he can later blame if the press don't look upon his decisions favourably.
A great deal of truth and actuality in 'duck's' post above.

However, Messrs Blair and Brown would have .....................
 
#7
Cameron is still defending the police cuts and said yesterday that the Police were able to deal with the riots and will continue to do so. What Cameron is missing, is that the these riots were only consisting of several hundred people at a time, a relatively small number. If riots were on a larger scale and in multiple locations at any one time, how long could the police alone cope for?..id say a maximum of 48 hrs, and that would be using almost all operational officers. On Tuesday night, 16000 police were on duty in London. Many came from other Forces, but how long can they keep that up for? Not long me thinks.
Cameron knows that if the army was to get involved with public disorder on the UK streets, then his time as PM will be finished, as he will be seem to be incompetant, as he has already show.
 
#8
Also during the big clean up in Hackney and Clapham, did anyone else notice that all of these people (at least from what I saw) were all white people? Seems our ethnic minority friends didnt think it was their job to pick up a broom.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
It's ridiculous for DC to say the police would deal with the riots - the problem is that, quite blatatantly, they didn't. People defer to a central authority and pay taxes in order to be defended against external enemies and to enjoy civil peace at home. Everything else is extra. DC has shamelessly defaulted on the first objective and is now proved to have defaulted on the second.
 
#11
There are at least two reasons.

1. The poll.

2. IMHO such a complex and important issue deserves several threads. One for general discussion and others for narrow aspects of the problem. It is like a big hall and several rooms. They complement each other.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#12
There are at least two reasons.

1. The poll.

2. IMHO such a complex and important issue deserves several threads. One for general discussion and others for narrow aspects of the problem. It is like a big hall and several rooms. They complement each other.
Can't see a poll on my phone and I can't see the reason for several threads about the same thing.
 
#13
Can't see a poll on my phone and I can't see the reason for several threads about the same thing.
Let's consider a scientific conference, mathematical one for example. There are common gatherings to discuss common issues, the most distingushed recent result and so on. And there are special meetings defoted to Mathematical Analysis, Logis, Topology, Theory of Numbers, Differential Geometry, Probability theory.

I would like to draw another parallel. any Parliament has commissions (Defence, Health care, Budget, Foreign relations and so on).

If an important issue is to be discussed then it would be helpfull to outline the most important questions and discuss them separately. In this case it is much easier to follow discussion, to comment answers to your posts and so on.

Just imagine that all ARRSE sections and thread are united in one super-thread. In this case it would be an end of the discussion.
 
#14
Can't see a poll on my phone and I can't see the reason for several threads about the same thing.
well stop contributing to it you chod!

No matter who has been in no 10 for the last 20 years as long as you shat in your own back yard they were happy. Yobs are now affecting profit so its tim to react. They now nothing is effective now. See the kids laughing at the police. I was always afraid of a swift blow from the coppers to be cheeky.
 
#15
It's utter cobblers to claim front line police numbers are to remain the same, when Govt and police authorities refuse to cut the red tape the police forces are suffocated by.

From the BBC live feed:

"I work as a member of police staff. Due to the current staff cuts, thousands of police staff are losing their jobs which are being filled by police officers who are in turn being taken off the streets. Mr Cameron needs to wake up because things could get worse as more police officers are taken off the streets."

Add to that the massive reductions in the judicial service, prison officers, fire service, and you have the usual cost-cutters' recipe for disater.
 
#16
Shit. I find myself on the side of the Tory PM on this one.

I think I have misunderstood the question. From my point of view his response as PRIME MINISTER was adequate - i.e. there is not a shitlot he can do about the riots whilst they are going on. That is the responsibility of police commanders. What he can do afterwards is spout empty political rhetoric and look for scapegoats. He has done that. He is wrong, but he has done that.
 
#17
Cameron is still defending the police cuts and said yesterday that the Police were able to deal with the riots and will continue to do so. What Cameron is missing, is that the these riots were only consisting of several hundred people at a time, a relatively small number. If riots were on a larger scale and in multiple locations at any one time, how long could the police alone cope for?..id say a maximum of 48 hrs, and that would be using almost all operational officers. On Tuesday night, 16000 police were on duty in London. Many came from other Forces, but how long can they keep that up for? Not long me thinks.
Cameron knows that if the army was to get involved with public disorder on the UK streets, then his time as PM will be finished, as he will be seem to be incompetant, as he has already show.
We are dealing with more than a generations worth of social decline as well as a failed experiment in multiculturalism, massive and in the recent past, uncontrolled immigration, a severe case of PC rot (and I am not referring to the thin blue line) and etc.

If DC had gone in with hobnailed boots at the start the lovies would be be shrieking police brutality and demanding counselling for all. Don't forget that police officers now have to understand the reasons why younger people break the law (to do with turf and status in the pack and all that bollocks) before they arrest a law breaking yob as a last resort.

So I for one am not at all surprised that the riots have happened.

As a politician, DC (and I am not defending him) has to judge whether a particular course of action he takes will result in diminishing, or increasing support. If support for him and his government were to be diminished, he wouldn't be able to do what's needed.

Frankly I don't think it matters who is in power right now, they have an almost impossible job and it is laughable to think that Brown or Blair could handle the situation.

Clearly at the outset the balance was against the government, e.g. with disillusioned and demoralised police officers wanting to be reassured that if they took aggressive action against aggression, they wouldn't be hung out to dry; with courts so lax on law breakers there isn't much point in taking them to court; with softy liberals having a huge say in dumbing down justice and promoting counselling and blame avoidance and so on.

But in the past year it has been noticeable that, where before if you tried to defend yourself or your property, you would be punished, things are changing for the better.

In some ways these riots could be, one cant say a good thing, but may be a catalyst for improvements in society. DC will be looking for support for future actions - as any PM would. So the silent majority now need to stand up and show their voice. Not in support of DC, but in support of a decent society, justice and freedom from yob culture.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#18
Let's consider a scientific conference, mathematical one for example. There are common gatherings to discuss common issues, the most distingushed recent result and so on. And there are special meetings defoted to Mathematical Analysis, Logis, Topology, Theory of Numbers, Differential Geometry, Probability theory.

I would like to draw another parallel. any Parliament has commissions (Defence, Health care, Budget, Foreign relations and so on).

If an important issue is to be discussed then it would be helpfull to outline the most important questions and discuss them separately. In this case it is much easier to follow discussion, to comment answers to your posts and so on.

Just imagine that all ARRSE sections and thread are united in one super-thread. In this case it would be an end of the discussion.
I don't need loads of analogies I'm not stupid.
 

TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
#19
An Open Letter to David Cameron’s Parents by Nathaniel Tapley

Dear Mr & Mrs Cameron,

Why did you never take the time to teach your child basic morality?

As a young man, he was in a gang that regularly smashed up private property. We know that you were absent parents who left your child to be brought up by a school rather than taking responsibility for his behaviour yourselves. The fact that he became a delinquent with no sense of respect for the property of others can only reflect that fact that you are terrible, lazy human beings who failed even in teaching your children the difference between right and wrong. I can only assume that his contempt for the small business owners of Oxford is indicative of his wider values.

Even worse, your neglect led him to fall in with a bad crowd.

There’s Michael Gove, whose wet-lipped rage was palpable on Newsnight last night. This is the Michael Gove who confused one of his houses with another of his houses in order to avail himself of £7,000 of the taxpayers’ money to which he was not entitled (or £13,000, depending on which house you think was which).
Or Hazel Blears, who was interviewed in full bristling peahen mode for almost all of last night. She once forgot which house she lived in, and benefited to the tune of £18,000. At the time she said it would take her reputation years to recover. Unfortunately not.

But, of course, this is different. This is just understandable confusion over the rules of how many houses you are meant to have as an MP. This doesn’t show the naked greed of people stealing plasma tellies.

Unless you’re Gerald Kaufman, who broke parliamentary rules to get £8,000 worth of 40-inch, flat screen, Bang and Olufsen TV out of the taxpayer.
Or Ed Vaizey, who got £2,000 in antique furniture ‘delivered to the wrong address’. Which is fortunate, because had that been the address they were intended for, that would have been fraud.

Or Jeremy Hunt, who broke the rules to the tune of almost £20,000 on one property and £2,000 on another. But it’s all right, because he agreed to pay half of the money back. Not the full amount, it would be absurd to expect him to pay back the entire sum that he took and to which he was not entitled. No, we’ll settle for half. And, as in any other field, what might have been considered embezzlement of £22,000 is overlooked. We know, after all, that David Cameron likes to give people second chances.
Fortunately, we have the Met Police to look after us. We’ll ignore the fact that two of its senior officers have had to resign in the last six weeks amid suspicions of widespread corruption within the force.

We’ll ignore Andy Hayman, who went for champagne dinners with those he was meant to be investigating, and then joined the company on leaving the Met.
Of course, Mr and Mrs Cameron, your son is right. There are parts of society that are not just broken, they are sick. Riddled with disease from top to bottom.
Just let me be clear about this (It’s a good phrase, Mr and Mrs Cameron, and one I looted from every sentence your son utters, just as he looted it from Tony Blair), I am not justifying or minimising in any way what has been done by the looters over the last few nights. What I am doing, however, is expressing shock and dismay that your son and his friends feel themselves in any way to be guardians of morality in this country.

Can they really, as 650 people who have shown themselves to be venal pygmies, moral dwarves at every opportunity over the last 20 years, bleat at others about ‘criminality’. Those who decided that when they broke the rules (the rules they themselves set) they, on the whole wouldn’t face the consequences of their actions?
Are they really surprised that this country’s culture is swamped in greed, in the acquisition of material things, in a lust for consumer goods of the most base kind? Really?
Let’s have a think back: cash-for-questions; Bernie Ecclestone; cash-for-access; Mandelson’s mortgage; the Hinduja passports; Blunkett’s alleged insider trading (and, by the way, when someone has had to resign in disgrace twice can we stop having them on television as a commentator, please?); the meetings on the yachts of oligarchs; the drafting of the Digital Economy Act with Lucian Grange; Byers’, Hewitt’s & Hoon’s desperation to prostitute themselves and their positions; the fact that Andrew Lansley (in charge of NHS reforms) has a wife who gives lobbying advice to the very companies hoping to benefit from the NHS reforms. And that list didn’t even take me very long to think of.

Our politicians are for sale and they do not care who knows it.

Oh yes, and then there’s the expenses thing. Widescale abuse of the very systems they designed, almost all of them grasping what they could while they remained MPs, to build their nest egg for the future at the public’s expense. They even now whine on Twitter about having their expenses claims for getting back to Parliament while much of the country is on fire subject to any examination. True public servants.

The last few days have revealed some truths, and some heartening truths. The fact that the #riotcleanup crews had organised themselves before David Cameron even made time for a public statement is heartening. The fact that local communities came together to keep their neighbourhoods safe when the police failed is heartening. The fact that there were peace vigils being organised (even as the police tried to dissuade people) is heartening.

There is hope for this country. But we must stop looking upwards for it. The politicians are the ones leading the charge into the gutter.

David Cameron was entirely right when he said: “It is a complete lack of responsibility in parts of our society, people allowed to think that the world owes them something, that their rights outweigh their responsibilities, and that their actions do not have consequences.”

He was more right than he knew.

And I blame the parents.

An Open Letter to David Cameron’s Parents « Nathaniel Tapley
 
#20
I think Cameron has done the best job we could expect considering the back-stabbing bunch of liberals behind him who will jump on any percieved attack on liberal values.

It is regretably yet another missed opportunity. Significant events like this can define a country's leade. 9/11 rescued Bush from being the worse 1 term President of all time, The Falklands defined Maggie, WW2 made Churchill the icon he is.

DC should have been strong from the start, given the Police his backing, authorised immediate use of robust riot control measures. Condemned the left wing MP who made political capital and apologies for the rioters. Enforced the rule of law.

A long line of similar mistakes similar to his stance on EU referendum, criminalisation of drugs, sacking of MPs for "mistakes" on claims, cutting welfare budget, slashing international aid, failing to lead from front on MPs pay and perks, reducing the cost of government and quangos. The UK needs positive leadership and courage - so far he has just been as limp as his coalition partners.
 

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