Rioting in Creggan, Londonderry.

Bobby_Bert

Old-Salt
All insurgencies require funding to some extent dissident republicans are no different. Criminal organisations are possible funding sources but may be unreliable- especially in such a small space like NI. Co-operation between dissies and organised crime attracts attention from PSNI, NCA and MI5 I’m sure. Funding from outside donors may come with a political price that affects the overall aim of their bullshit insurgency and weakens their already limited appeal. Counterinsurgents can exploit insurgent financial weaknesses. Controls and regulations that limit the movement and exchange of materiel and funds may compound insurgent financial vulnerabilities. Financial transaction can also
be another valuable source of int.

These PIRA imposters need to maintain momentum- so by locking up a potential QM it hampers them. Controlling the pace and timing of operations is vital to the success of any insurgency. Insurgents control the start of their campaign and have some measure of control over subsequent activity. While many insurgencies have failed to capitalise on their initial opportunities others have allowed counterinsurgents to dictate the pace of events and scope of activities. If insurgents lose momentum, counterinsurgents can seize the initiative.

Also let’s face it- this breed of IRA are riddled with touts. Nothing is more demoralising to insurgents than realising that people inside their movement or trusted supporters among the public are deserting or whispering in the ear of the PSNI.
 

Bobby_Bert

Old-Salt
Well the guy on the charge was only 1 year old in 69 so by the time he started most of the aggro was over. The reputed gunman (still on the loose) wasn't even on the planet.
Say the gunman is 18.

He was therefore born in 2002..... radicalisation at its worst.
 
I haven't been over for a couple of years, but that was my impression last time I was there. Indeed on my subsequent reading of the background to the Republican movement I think I can now see why, where and when the various divergent ideologies came from. While the Provos have acknowledge the legitimacy of a non violent pursuit of a UI, the dissident groups are clinging to the strict interpretations set in the second Dail Eirean which essentially mean abstention from not only Stormont and Westminster, but from the Dail too.

What is needed is perhaps a motion in the new parliament in he Republic to place reunification back on the formal adgenda but by peaceful means only and with a unanimous vote that speaks for the vast majority of the Irish people. If that is reiterated in and by other organizations, political and economic, and with the recent SF support for the PSNI, perhaps it might just place dissedents into the bracket of unacceptable behaviour within their own community. Most already know they represent no-one but themselves, guided by an outdated romantic vision of what might have been valid back then but is no longer relevant or necessary for the Ireland of today. There will be no commemorations, no statues, no letters, no parole, no flags and no thanks for these people. The best they can hope for is a beer stained celtic shirt and the occassional happy day at the end of the Scottish football season.......occassionally. As a lifelong Rangers man I would happily give them the championship every year if it meant an end to the desperate desperados of the real IRA - I crossed out that bit because, quite frankly, they couldn't fill the shoes of those we fought between 69-97.
As much as I agree with your sentiments, the GFA was an expression of much of what you wanted to see. The dissidents have continued to ignore the political will and public opinion that went behind it.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Did anyone see the PIRA turning into the pack of cnuts that they were in 1969?


Turning into a pack of cnuts, why not? Physical force being a natural extension of previous historical campaigns.

Your question should have been could we see Sinn Fein being as successful. Why not they used the same model in the north, it took 25 years. Tweaked and transferred it south and they did it in 20.

And with the benefit of that history lesson. It wont happen with this current crop of alphabet soup republicans.

What have they got to offer?

Brits out.......Brexit shot that fox

Power sharing in Stormont, the Dail, hustling for a United Ireland. The shinners have that covered.

Shooting policemen thats a criminal offence. The police will deal with that.
They dont seem to have a lot to offer the disaffected youth they tend to surround themselves with. And the whole things apparently full of informers.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Soclialization in a polarised society. Not too difficult......harder now I would hope.
, Derry's still too much of a village to go mixing and socialising in. Belfasts different the kids just mix and socialise all over the place. Its more social class than religion. They're partying in places their parents wouldn't have gone near.
 
Well the guy on the charge was only 1 year old in 69 so by the time he started most of the aggro was over. The reputed gunman (still on the loose) wasn't even on the planet.
The majority of the senior leadership of the DR groups are former PIRA members. The youngsters that used to gravitate towards the Fianna are now gravitating towards them, especially in towns and cities, which is why they find it so easy to instigate rioting.

The exact breakdown varies a lot from place to place. A little over 10 years ago the average age of CIRA in Fermanagh was about 50 and they were almost all former PIRA members. In Armagh/Lurgan it was 21 and almost all of them had joined CIRA directly. That has it's own advantages and disadvantages, the Fermanagh lot were technically competent and experienced, but terrified of getting caught and going to prison. The North Armagh lot didn't know how to do much but were mental and would try pretty much anything.
 

Mike Barton

War Hero
The problem with the youngsters in Derry is that they hear all the old tales. It's everywhere, the murals, the museums, the talk in the bars and the schools. The Troubles largely defined Derry for the past half century.

If you're in your teens now hanging out in the Bogside or Creggan, large parts of which have become Troubles theme parks with busloads of tourists stopping off to get photographed at Free Derry Corner or getting the tour around the site of Bloody Sunday, you might feel you missed out on all the crack.

Sure, only a tiny proportion of them will get swept up, but that's all we're talking about here, a couple of dozen youngsters and the Boys of the Old Brigade in their 50s and 60s recreating their youths (just for the record if he's 53 he'd have seen some action in his day, as he would have come of age in the Hunger Strikes).

Meanwhile apparently drug addiction and suicide rates are soaring in Derry, despite Derry being transformed now into actually not an unpleasant and fairly prosperous town. Drugs and youth suicide were unheard of in Derry during the 70s and 80s when the place was a God forsaken hellhole and half the youth were running wild burning, bombing and rioting.

Make of that what you will.
 

Mike Barton

War Hero
On the subject of getting kids to cause disorder... Protesters and police clash at McKee murder hearing
Well, if the defence is correct the case is pretty thin, the only evidence is video footage of him picking up spent casings, hard to pin a murder case or even possession on the basis of that.

I picked up a few spent casings in my day myself. We had a few on our mantelpiece in the house, they always made for a good conversation piece.
 
Turning into a pack of cnuts, why not? Physical force being a natural extension of previous historical campaigns.

Your question should have been could we see Sinn Fein being as successful. Why not they used the same model in the north, it took 25 years. Tweaked and transferred it south and they did it in 20.

And with the benefit of that history lesson. It wont happen with this current crop of alphabet soup republicans.

What have they got to offer?

Brits out.......Brexit shot that fox

Power sharing in Stormont, the Dail, hustling for a United Ireland. The shinners have that covered.

Shooting policemen thats a criminal offence. The police will deal with that.
They dont seem to have a lot to offer the disaffected youth they tend to surround themselves with. And the whole things apparently full of informers.
Physical forces such as murdering your own people, like a mother with 10 kids?


Sinn Finn arent that successful, they get 25% of the vote both north and south, which mean 75% of irish arent that impressed by them. Much as I think the SNP are bellends, they have higher support in Jockland and didnt need to murder anyone.

The current crop of ********* dont have to offer anything, they just need to keep killing until someone in the government decides on "peace talks"
 
Difficult as they only formed up on 28 December 1969.
In those 3 days left of 1969 did anyone see them become a top tier terrorist group that would eventually get the government of the UK to release murderers?
 
Well the guy on the charge was only 1 year old in 69 so by the time he started most of the aggro was over. The reputed gunman (still on the loose) wasn't even on the planet.
The guy on a charge and his peers are of the age to have been in PIRA, who were just the same as the RIRA, just criminal shitcunts, no better or worse than each other.
 

Bobby_Bert

Old-Salt
I really love @Stacker1 naivety and his delusion that he actually understands any of this. Beautifully presented as he angrily posts from the stores of a RLC Regt.

I think to comment on a comprehensive overview of the Provos campaign between the eruption of communal violence in NI in 1969 and the final decommissioning of weapons (who actually believes for one second they are all gone) in 2005. To even begin to answer your question Stacker one must cover the origins of PIRA; their evolving strategy of their cells and wider organisation, including the bombing of the mainland, the impact of our counter-insurgency ops, the prison debacle that culminated in the Hunger Strikes of 1981, the rise of Sinn Féin and the peace process rollercoaster of the 90s.

At the centre of the subject is the relationship between the Provisionals and the communities in which they lived. I encourage Stacker to consider IRA violence using the widely available comparative and interdisciplinary literature out there, drawing upon the work of anthropologists and sociologists as well as historians and scholars working on terrorism. Or maybe just let those who understand the topic discuss it?

My apologies, I just feel this topic is too important to allow a box stacker crayon over. I’ve popped him on ignore.
 
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Bobby_Bert

Old-Salt
If the young fellow who did this has any conscience at all, today he will be shaking like a shitting dog. I hope it may persuade him to give up violence and to break away from the old boys who (cowards that they are themselves) told him to fire at the police. There is no honour amongst rats.
 
I really love @Stacker1 naivety and his delusion that he actually understands any of this. Beautifully presented as he angrily posts from the stores of RLC Regt.

I think to comment on a comprehensive overview of the Provos campaign between the eruption of communal violence in NI in 1969 and the final decommissioning of weapons (who actually believes for one second they are all gone) in 2005. To even begin to answer your question Stacker one must cover the origins of PIRA; their evolving strategy of their cells and wider organisation, including the bombing of the mainland, the impact of our counter-insurgency ops, the prison debacle that culminated in the Hunger Strikes of 1981, the rise of Sinn Féin and the peace process rollercoaster of the 90s.

At the centre of the subject is the relationship between the Provisionals and the communities in which they lived. I encourage Stacker to consider IRA violence using the widely available comparative and interdisciplinary literature out there, drawing upon the work of anthropologists and sociologists as well as historians and scholars working on terrorism. Or maybe just let those who understand the topic discuss it?

My apologies, I just feel this topic is too important to allow a box stacker crayon over. I’ve popped him on ignore.
This from a man who tells someone to delete their account because it might impact on a criminal investigation that currently doesnt exist.
Yet likes to grandstand on a thread about a current murder investigation.
 
To even begin to answer your question Stacker one must cover the origins of PIRA; their evolving strategy of their cells and wider organisation, including the bombing of the mainland, the impact of our counter-insurgency ops, the prison debacle that culminated in the Hunger Strikes of 1981, the rise of Sinn Féin and the peace process rollercoaster of the 90s.
So why don't you cover them rather than pontificating on the sideline and effectvely running away from Stacker?
 
I'm sure the other 3 that were lifted and released, will be bricking it when Thomas Mellon and Co, decide they want to know why they got out and their mates been done for murder.
 

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