Rioting in Creggan, Londonderry.

Your opinion flies in the face of the majority who have resided in these six counties for the past 98 years.

You don't do democracy, do you?
I have every sympathy with the Unionist position and while there is a majority of people in Northern Ireland , myself included, who wish to remain part of the United Kingdom, then NI should most certainly remain British.

But having said that I can't help thinking that the Ulster Unionist opposition to Home Rule in 1912 was a huge mistake. The Irish Parliamentary Party under John Redmond was a moderate, imperial-minded, nationalist party which only sought a limited measure of devolution, similar to that enjoyed by Scotland today. Republicanism was something that barely even featured on the radar of Irish nationalism, Sinn Fein under Arthur Griffith sought a dual-monarchy, similar to that arrangement between Austria and Hungary.

When war came Redmond unequivocally supported Britain and urged the Irish Volunteers to sign up to fight for Britain, which they did en masse, with only a small rump remaining behind. Redmond's own son enlisted, as did his brother Willie, a fellow MP, who died in France, as did Tom Kettle. Five Irish Nationalist MPs fought for Britain.

Could Ulster Unionists not easily have worked along with men like them to create a united, constitutional Irish dominion within the empire, like Canada, Australia and New Zealand? Did they really hate their fellow Irishmen so much that they couldn't bear to work alongside them in a shared Ireland? Was truncating Ireland and creating a bitter, inward looking Northern Ireland, constantly living in siege behind its ramparts a better option than working together in a proud united imperial Ireland?

Even South Africa, where the divisions between English and Boer were much deeper than those in Ireland were able to unite in a loyal imperial dominion, with former enemies like Jan Smuts and Winston Churchill working together as close friends in support of the empire.

It could have been the same for Ireland, and I truly believe that Ulster's overblown opposition to Home Rule was exploited by very cynical men in the Tory Party (Edward Carson believed this too) and led to a very sad conclusion that we live with to this day.
 
Didn't one of the Kenedy clan when stopped by a checkpoint in Belfast tell the soldier "why don't you go home?" only to be told he was home as he was a UDR soldier!?
Many here claim it was Ted. It actually was not Ted but his nephew Joe Kennedy II, son of Bobby. .
Ted was reasonably intelligent. I have met Joe many times and talked with him. Joe is not bright. I would place his intellectual capacity as being brighter than a potted plant but dimmer than a cocker spaniel. He was nice looking, always big smiles showing teeth.
Joe was actually my congressman. Happily he is no longer a member of congress. His son, Joe Kennedy III is currently a congressman from Massachusetts. He is too liberal for me but he is brighter than his dad, he must have gotten his brains from his mum's side, Sheila is a nice lady. My son was a school classmate of Joe III and liked him.
Ted did have a drink problem but was not arrogant and was very courteous to others. All or most, of the "crazy" members of the clan are the children of Robert Kennedy and Ethel Skakel. Michael Kennedy was awaiting trial involving sex with a 14 or 15 year old girl at the time of his death in a skiing accident . Cousin Michael Skakel was convicted of murdering a girl when he was in his teens. Joe Kennedy II was in an accident involving reckless driving that left a young woman paralyzed. Years ago Ethel's sister, Kick Skakel, driving crazily, killed the young daughter, Hope O'Brien (age 7), of one of their friends.
 
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I have every sympathy with the Unionist position and while there is a majority of people in Northern Ireland , myself included, who wish to remain part of the United Kingdom, then NI should most certainly remain British.

But having said that I can't help thinking that the Ulster Unionist opposition to Home Rule in 1912 was a huge mistake. The Irish Parliamentary Party under John Redmond was a moderate, imperial-minded, nationalist party which only sought a limited measure of devolution, similar to that enjoyed by Scotland today. Republicanism was something that barely even featured on the radar of Irish nationalism, Sinn Fein under Arthur Griffith sought a dual-monarchy, similar to that arrangement between Austria and Hungary.

When war came Redmond unequivocally supported Britain and urged the Irish Volunteers to sign up to fight for Britain, which they did en masse, with only a small rump remaining behind. Redmond's own son enlisted, as did his brother Willie, a fellow MP, who died in France, as did Tom Kettle. Five Irish Nationalist MPs fought for Britain.

Could Ulster Unionists not easily have worked along with men like them to create a united, constitutional Irish dominion within the empire, like Canada, Australia and New Zealand? Did they really hate their fellow Irishmen so much that they couldn't bear to work alongside them in a shared Ireland? Was truncating Ireland and creating a bitter, inward looking Northern Ireland, constantly living in siege behind its ramparts a better option than working together in a proud united imperial Ireland?

Even South Africa, where the divisions between English and Boer were much deeper than those in Ireland were able to unite in a loyal imperial dominion, with former enemies like Jan Smuts and Winston Churchill working together as close friends in support of the empire.

It could have been the same for Ireland, and I truly believe that Ulster's overblown opposition to Home Rule was exploited by very cynical men in the Tory Party (Edward Carson believed this too) and led to a very sad conclusion that we live with to this day.

....gosh, that's a dreadful slur on the Tories.

No way would they put internal Party advantage over serious matters of national unity and public benefit. No way.


Oh well, if they did, I suppose it was a long time ago and nothing like that would happen nowadays.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Can you define any nationality? Does the term Chinese need definition? Brazilian? Heck, how would you define British or English for that matter?

Do you normally have this much intellectual difficulty with fairly simple, globally recognised concepts, or is it only the Irish that cause you problems?
I don't have a problem with them, unlike you and comprehension it seems.
 
I have every sympathy with the Unionist position and while there is a majority of people in Northern Ireland , myself included, who wish to remain part of the United Kingdom, then NI should most certainly remain British.

But having said that I can't help thinking that the Ulster Unionist opposition to Home Rule in 1912 was a huge mistake. The Irish Parliamentary Party under John Redmond was a moderate, imperial-minded, nationalist party which only sought a limited measure of devolution, similar to that enjoyed by Scotland today. Republicanism was something that barely even featured on the radar of Irish nationalism, Sinn Fein under Arthur Griffith sought a dual-monarchy, similar to that arrangement between Austria and Hungary.

When war came Redmond unequivocally supported Britain and urged the Irish Volunteers to sign up to fight for Britain, which they did en masse, with only a small rump remaining behind. Redmond's own son enlisted, as did his brother Willie, a fellow MP, who died in France, as did Tom Kettle. Five Irish Nationalist MPs fought for Britain.

Could Ulster Unionists not easily have worked along with men like them to create a united, constitutional Irish dominion within the empire, like Canada, Australia and New Zealand? Did they really hate their fellow Irishmen so much that they couldn't bear to work alongside them in a shared Ireland? Was truncating Ireland and creating a bitter, inward looking Northern Ireland, constantly living in siege behind its ramparts a better option than working together in a proud united imperial Ireland?

Even South Africa, where the divisions between English and Boer were much deeper than those in Ireland were able to unite in a loyal imperial dominion, with former enemies like Jan Smuts and Winston Churchill working together as close friends in support of the empire.

It could have been the same for Ireland, and I truly believe that Ulster's overblown opposition to Home Rule was exploited by very cynical men in the Tory Party (Edward Carson believed this too) and led to a very sad conclusion that we live with to this day.
Not forgetting that Ireland had its own Parliament (obviously not as we know them today and not truly representative of the people) from 1284 to 1801 and to varying degrees they were on a whole island basis



Northern Ireland only had its only Parliament from 1921 which was created by the Government of Ireland Act (along with a Parliament in Dublin). The Dublin Parliament never really sat as Sinn Fein etc was absentee. Therefore direct rule on “Southern Ireland” was used.

Therefore partition was actually created prior to the Anglo-Irish Treaty 1922.

I’m open to correction but the people were never directly asked if they wanted partition on the island. They voted for candidates and/or parties that did have a stand on it yes.
 
A new statement by PSNI and new photos released of suspects.

New footage of suspected McKee gunman

Det Supt Murphy appealed for anyone who recognises the man to come forward and tell police.
"I believe the community has the information to help me unlock the key to Lyra McKee's murder," he said.


Time to see if the people of the Creggan really want peace or are they still too scared of the IRA?
 
A new statement by PSNI and new photos released of suspects.

New footage of suspected McKee gunman

Det Supt Murphy appealed for anyone who recognises the man to come forward and tell police.
"I believe the community has the information to help me unlock the key to Lyra McKee's murder," he said.


Time to see if the people of the Creggan really want peace or are they still too scared of the IRA?
It doesn't show the guy's face though does it?

However, given that the PSNI put out an appeal for anyone to provide them with any video or photos of the rioting they may have taken last week and these pictures are now being released by the police, it sounds to me like a lot of law-abiding citizens in the Creggan have come forward with just the info the cops require.

It would be nice to acknowledge that.
 
Time to see if the people of the Creggan really want peace or are they still too scared of the IRA?
In fairness, if I lived on a run down estate with those murdering shitcunts, I'd also be wary about grassing up a killer. The PSNI wont be able to protect them.
 
Further to the above.

From the BBC report.

"They are pleased that more than 140 people have provided them with information but they need more."
Same as it ever was.
 
In fairness, if I lived on a run down estate with those murdering shitcunts, I'd also be wary about grassing up a killer. The PSNI wont be able to protect them.
There was a report in one of the Sunday magazines (think it was The Sunday Times) some months about the punishment beatings and shootings that have carried on regardless. Mostly young lads getting severely beaten or shot in the legs, often with life changing consequences. Typically they turn up when requested by the hoods, often brought along by family - it's do that of face even worse consequences.

So yeah, I totally get why people might be afraid of getting found out giving info to the Police, but lots already have and that's pretty impressive.
 
A new statement by PSNI and new photos released of suspects.

New footage of suspected McKee gunman

Det Supt Murphy appealed for anyone who recognises the man to come forward and tell police.
"I believe the community has the information to help me unlock the key to Lyra McKee's murder," he said.


Time to see if the people of the Creggan really want peace or are they still too scared of the IRA?
Where's a trigger happy Para when you need one!
 
There was a report in one of the Sunday magazines (think it was The Sunday Times) some months about the punishment beatings and shootings that have carried on regardless. Mostly young lads getting severely beaten or shot in the legs, often with life changing consequences. Typically they turn up when requested by the hoods, often brought along by family - it's do that of face even worse consequences.
The kids in republican areas have always been dealt with by the local IRA for "anti-social" behaviour.
That is, they are working for themselves. If they steal cars and deal drugs on the orders of the local IRA, that's just fine (of course they have to give most of the money"earnt" to someone else)
The terrorists like to claim they police their own areas because the locals don't trust the security services. The real reason is because the main "job" of the local RA is to make money by drugs, prostitution, gambling and ilegal drinking dens. If your not earning money for the cause then expect a knock on the door and the sound of paving slabs being excavated outside.
It's the same in the loyalist shitholes as well (just for impartiality)
 
The kids in republican areas have always been dealt with by the local IRA for "anti-social" behaviour.
That is, they are working for themselves. If they steal cars and deal drugs on the orders of the local IRA, that's just fine (of course they have to give most of the money"earnt" to someone else)
The terrorists like to claim they police their own areas because the locals don't trust the security services. The real reason is because the main "job" of the local RA is to make money by drugs, prostitution, gambling and ilegal drinking dens. If your not earning money for the cause then expect a knock on the door and the sound of paving slabs being excavated outside.
It's the same in the loyalist shitholes as well (just for impartiality)
"The real reason is because the main "job" of the local RA is to make money by drugs, prostitution, gambling and ilegal drinking dens."

The IRA (I mean the Provos, I can't speak for the alphabets) are not running drugs, prostitution, gambling or illegal drinking dens in Derry. I am doubtful whether they ever did, it was certainly never their "main job".
 
"The real reason is because the main "job" of the local RA is to make money by drugs, prostitution, gambling and ilegal drinking dens."

The IRA (I mean the Provos, I can't speak for the alphabets) are not running drugs, prostitution, gambling or illegal drinking dens in Derry. I am doubtful whether they ever did, it was certainly never their "main job".
The IRA have been dealing drugs for years, using some of the "trade routes" they used for arms.
The fags and booze syndicates were well known in the 80's certainly. Go to any ops room in the 80's and the int guys could tell you where the drinking dens were.
I don't know why you think this never happened and is not happening now.

IRA and INLA at war on capital's streets - Independent.ie
Irish gangs join British to control Europe’s drug gateways
The IRA and the Colombian connection
'New proof' links IRA to drug terror
 
In Derry the drug scene (at least up until the arrival of the club scene in the 1990s) consisted of a couple of beatniks growing marijuana in their bedsits to sell to students.

Prostitution consisted of a couple of old slappers who worked the docks and around Foyle Street, if the Provos were running them they weren't making too much money out of them.

Gambling was open and legal and run through Willie Duffy's and Sean Graham's bookies, stakes involved sometimes reached the heady heights of a 50p yankee on a Saturday afternoon.

To the best of my memory there were no illegal drinking dens in Derry. There was no need for them as there were over 100 perfectly legal, openly run bars and pubs, all owned by local families who had run them for years.

The "main job" of the IRA in Derry was not running "drugs, prostitution, gambling and ilegal [sic] drinking dens" as you stated.
 
In Derry the drug scene (at least up until the arrival of the club scene in the 1990s) consisted of a couple of beatniks growing marijuana in their bedsits to sell to students.

Prostitution consisted of a couple of old slappers who worked the docks and around Foyle Street, if the Provos were running them they weren't making too much money out of them.

Gambling was open and legal and run through Willie Duffy's and Sean Graham's bookies, stakes involved sometimes reached the heady heights of a 50p yankee on a Saturday afternoon.

To the best of my memory there were no illegal drinking dens in Derry. There was no need for them as there were over 100 perfectly legal, openly run bars and pubs, all owned by local families who had run them for years.

The "main job" of the IRA in Derry was not running "drugs, prostitution, gambling and ilegal [sic] drinking dens" as you stated.
So how did the IRA fund it's acivities then?
Contrary to what some on here believe, the tin rattlers in Boston didn't make that much!

The Richest Terror Organizations in the World

#10 – The Real IRA


Total annual income: $50 million


Despite the efforts of customs authorities and security forces, the organization’s leaders have refined their fundraising abilities and manage to pocket tens of millions of dollars per year, mostly through a sophisticated global network that smuggles and sells cigarettes and tobacco. The tobacco smuggling industry in Britain has been thriving in recent years, bringing in huge sums of money.
A special report produced by the international accounting firm KPMG suggests that the illegal cigarette trade on the black market in Britain is among the largest in Europe. In 2016, approximately 5.55 billion cigarettes were sold illegally – with a black-market value of around $1.1 billion annually. In a special investigation done by the Sun, senior government officials declared that IRA members (including the Provisional IRA) are responsible for about 40% of the illegal tobacco market in Britain, and with the profits generated by this industry annually, tens of millions of dollars in royalties go directly to the RIRA.
The crime and terror organization recently got an unexpected boost from parliament – thanks to the same law that forbids the branding of packets of cigarettes and rolling tobacco. According to experts, the passing of the law significantly simplified the forgery work required of those profiting from black market tobacco and is expected to channel tens of millions of dollars more their way with a hefty portion expected to go to the RIRA.
Apart from illegal trade in tobacco, the radical Irish organization also enjoys significant royalties from its pirate network of falsified alcohol and fuel products as well as protection fees that it collects – especially in those areas under its influence, in which police enforcement is low.
An additional source of capital for the Real IRA, according to the US State Department Report on Global Terror, comes from supporters in the large Irish community in the USA. The underground Irish organization knows well how to exploit this wealthy target audience, and raises funds based on the support of Irish-American activists who oppose the peace agreement.


Belfast and Derry triads behind Northern Ireland sex slave pop-up brothels - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

The Chinese mafia are not the only group to be involved in vice here, with local paramilitaries are also reputed to have been involved.
 
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