Rioting in Creggan, Londonderry.

That's why we like you. You get sarcasm.
He has almost passed the: ARRSE Intermediate Sarcasm and Irony course with extra credits for ignoring Sock Puppets.
 
Second question - given how much the various flavours of the IRA hate the British Army of the 1970s and 80s, why do they go out of their way to copy the British uniforms and organisational structure (QMs etc.?)
I am not Irish and from across a big pond but am old enough to have followed events there in the late 60's and 70's. I recall reading an article that said that a number of PIRA were veterans of the British Army and that some had joined deliberately to learn military skills for their intended IRA activities.
 
I am not Irish and from across a big pond but am old enough to have followed events there in the late 60's and 70's. I recall reading an article that said that a number of PIRA were veterans of the British Army and that some had joined deliberately to learn military skills for their intended IRA activities.
John Joe McGee (died 2002, Dundalk, County Louth, Ireland) was an IRA volunteer who was formerly in the British Special Boat Service.

John Joe McGee - Wikipedia
 
Sean MacStiofan (Johnny Stephenson to his mates in London) was ex-RAF. In the early days of the Troubles the backbone of "defence committees" in Belfast and Derry was made up of the Catholic ex-Servicemen's Association, these men helped train the younger lads how to build barricades and make and throw petrol bombs. You can be pretty sure they also passed along a lot more interesting information than that as would be evidenced by the explosives and sniping skills that suddenly emerged among IRA volunteers who months before hadn't known what end of a rifle to load the rounds into.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was a split in Long Kesh in the early/mid 70s among the internees, with men like Gerry Adams and his acolytes being unhappy with the leadership, which comprised ex-British Army men who were imposing "spit-and-polish" discipline to maintain morale among those being detained, by old-fashioned drills and parades. Adams wanted to drop the old British Army-style structure of PIRA, which he said was totally unsuited to the "Long War" and create a new urban guerrilla structure of cells akin to the Baader-Meinhoff and Red Brigades. Adams won the argument.

Prior to the 1950s campaign the huge arms raid that netted almost the entire arsenal of Gough Barracks in Armagh was planned using local guys who had signed up for the Royal Irish Fusiliers, I think quite a number of the IRA who fought in Operation Harvest had spent time in the British Army.

Earlier than that Tom Barry had been a British Army sergeant in Mesopotamia in WWI. Barry himself admitted he had no notion of Irish politics and only became interested after the Easter Rising, and then after demob started reading voraciously on Irish nationalism, much to the suspicion of the Republicans who assumed he was a British spy. A suspicion that was only dissipated when he wiped out a platoon of Auxiliaries in the Kilmichael ambush.

It is remarkable how few WWI veterans of the British Army joined the IRA in the War of Independence, they were for the most part viewed with understandable suspicion and distrust. It was to cost the IRA dearly in the Civil War when the Irish Free State happily signed them up in their thousands and used them to wipe out the "Irregular" IRA in a matter of months.
 
I am not Irish and from across a big pond but am old enough to have followed events there in the late 60's and 70's. I recall reading an article that said that a number of PIRA were veterans of the British Army and that some had joined deliberately to learn military skills for their intended IRA activities.
The PIRA QM in Londonderry in 1977-78 was one Charles McSheffrey, a member of the Royal Signals back in National Service days.

Having just consulted Google to confirm my memory, it seems his house was the site of an 'own goal' in 1972. Two terrorists were killed. Oh dear . . . etc.
 
Genuine question - given that everyone knows which groups will be appearing at certain events, what's stopping a 'disgruntled dissident' from taking potshots at the opposition?

For example, this variety of the ABCIRA had a march in Belfast - what's stopping some young nutjob armed by the UDF (other lunatics are available) from brassing up the march? Apart from getting in trouble with the PSNI, it would be a big propaganda win and would show them actually striking out at the 'enemy' rather than intimidating and brutalising their own community.

Second question - given how much the various flavours of the IRA hate the British Army of the 1970s and 80s, why do they go out of their way to copy the British uniforms and organisational structure (QMs etc.?)
What point would there be in attacking a Republican memorial parade? It's upto the cops to stop the illegal dissident parades.
After yesterdays parade in Dublin past the GPO, maybe the Irish government wants to stop them walking about like club footed spastics as well.
 
Sean MacStiofan (Johnny Stephenson to his mates in London) was ex-RAF. In the early days of the Troubles the backbone of "defence committees" in Belfast and Derry was made up of the Catholic ex-Servicemen's Association, these men helped train the younger lads how to build barricades and make and throw petrol bombs. You can be pretty sure they also passed along a lot more interesting information than that as would be evidenced by the explosives and sniping skills that suddenly emerged among IRA volunteers who months before hadn't known what end of a rifle to load the rounds into.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was a split in Long Kesh in the early/mid 70s among the internees, with men like Gerry Adams and his acolytes being unhappy with the leadership, which comprised ex-British Army men who were imposing "spit-and-polish" discipline to maintain morale among those being detained, by old-fashioned drills and parades. Adams wanted to drop the old British Army-style structure of PIRA, which he said was totally unsuited to the "Long War" and create a new urban guerrilla structure of cells akin to the Baader-Meinhoff and Red Brigades. Adams won the argument.

Prior to the 1950s campaign the huge arms raid that netted almost the entire arsenal of Gough Barracks in Armagh was planned using local guys who had signed up for the Royal Irish Fusiliers, I think quite a number of the IRA who fought in Operation Harvest had spent time in the British Army.

Earlier than that Tom Barry had been a British Army sergeant in Mesopotamia in WWI. Barry himself admitted he had no notion of Irish politics and only became interested after the Easter Rising, and then after demob started reading voraciously on Irish nationalism, much to the suspicion of the Republicans who assumed he was a British spy. A suspicion that was only dissipated when he wiped out a platoon of Auxiliaries in the Kilmichael ambush.

It is remarkable how few WWI veterans of the British Army joined the IRA in the War of Independence, they were for the most part viewed with understandable suspicion and distrust. It was to cost the IRA dearly in the Civil War when the Irish Free State happily signed them up in their thousands and used them to wipe out the "Irregular" IRA in a matter of months.
Brendan Hughes was in the Merchant Navy or the Naval Reserve, if I remember right.
 
So you don’t want anything that you never had? And that makes you a thick cnut?


From their perspective:

No it hasn’t as there was no plan to partition the island. The plan was for all to leave in freedom.

yes and no
There is still discrimination in NI, but not so much along sectarian lines.


Absolutely!!!

There is a sizeable chunk of youths under about 30 who are the marginalised (but not always), disaffected, easily led and want to take their frustration out on something/someone.

It is like the rise of the far left/right across Europe in a way.

Those people are easy pray for those that have an agenda. In this case the likes of 32CSM, RIRA, NIRA etc.

As Lyra McKee describes them, the “ceasefire babies” who are too young to remember the worst of the Troubles and the danger of backward steps.

Also there is a void of political leadership, there are only the 2 extremes really and we no strong centrist group (like the SDLP, Women’s Coalition or to a lesser extent the Alliance Party) and they don’t have a strong centrist leader like John Hume to bring the 2 extremes together.
I was discussing this attack with my 20 year old son and he pointed out that if the attacker had been a Muslim, say, there would be the search for those who had radicalised him.
 
There she was,just a walking down the street,singing...
For people who hate the British state so much, it always tickles me pink to see them uniformly togged up in British DPM combat jackets and what looks very much like British issue tissue berets. Have the Irish state threatened them with violence if they get caught wearing their gear?
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
For people who hate the British state so much, it always tickles me pink to see them uniformly togged up in British DPM combat jackets and what looks very much like British issue tissue berets. Have the Irish state threatened them with violence if they get caught wearing their gear?
Not sure why they allowed to tbh

But they are allowed to in NI as well
 
Sean MacStiofan (Johnny Stephenson to his mates in London) was ex-RAF. In the early days of the Troubles the backbone of "defence committees" in Belfast and Derry was made up of the Catholic ex-Servicemen's Association, these men helped train the younger lads how to build barricades and make and throw petrol bombs. You can be pretty sure they also passed along a lot more interesting information than that as would be evidenced by the explosives and sniping skills that suddenly emerged among IRA volunteers who months before hadn't known what end of a rifle to load the rounds into.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was a split in Long Kesh in the early/mid 70s among the internees, with men like Gerry Adams and his acolytes being unhappy with the leadership, which comprised ex-British Army men who were imposing "spit-and-polish" discipline to maintain morale among those being detained, by old-fashioned drills and parades. Adams wanted to drop the old British Army-style structure of PIRA, which he said was totally unsuited to the "Long War" and create a new urban guerrilla structure of cells akin to the Baader-Meinhoff and Red Brigades. Adams won the argument.

Prior to the 1950s campaign the huge arms raid that netted almost the entire arsenal of Gough Barracks in Armagh was planned using local guys who had signed up for the Royal Irish Fusiliers, I think quite a number of the IRA who fought in Operation Harvest had spent time in the British Army.

Earlier than that Tom Barry had been a British Army sergeant in Mesopotamia in WWI. Barry himself admitted he had no notion of Irish politics and only became interested after the Easter Rising, and then after demob started reading voraciously on Irish nationalism, much to the suspicion of the Republicans who assumed he was a British spy. A suspicion that was only dissipated when he wiped out a platoon of Auxiliaries in the Kilmichael ambush.

It is remarkable how few WWI veterans of the British Army joined the IRA in the War of Independence, they were for the most part viewed with understandable suspicion and distrust. It was to cost the IRA dearly in the Civil War when the Irish Free State happily signed them up in their thousands and used them to wipe out the "Irregular" IRA in a matter of months.
That discipline etc had worked in the internment/prison camps after 1916

Not forgetting that Civil War although relatively short was extremely bloody at times and divisive (to this day)
 

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