Rilfe, L32A1

IIRC these were originally procured for the Malayan Emergency, but stayed in service and were used in Borneo, Kenya, NI.
I remember at IJLB, Oswestry, we briefly covered jungle warfare to the extent of a walk-thru-talk-thru at Nesscliffe training area.
"Of course," said 'Paddy' Faloon(?) the Tac Wing instructor. "If we were in an actual jungle the point man would have an Enfield pump shotgun and there wouldn't be six inches of fecking snow on the ground."
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
The leading scout carried these in Borneo, he changed over every so many hundred metres, and handed the weapon to the next in line. I seem to remember that either the pump action carried nine rounds or the cartridge was loaded with nine lead balls. Someone please correct me.
I have one now which is Enfield and marked WD but single shot.
Single shot should be a Greener, a mahoosive Martini action and if UK issued in 12 bore. The big balls carts are usually SG which is 9 x 8.6 mm balls of lead. Like a grenade to the face. Our Rem 870's could pack in 8 or 9 if one up, so thats 72 8.6mm balls to the body and if an Ithaca 37 less than 4 seconds if you slam fire. good medicine at 30 yards, slugs better out to 100 yards but beyond that it falls quickly
 
The leading scout carried these in Borneo, he changed over every so many hundred metres, and handed the weapon to the next in line. I seem to remember that either the pump action carried nine rounds or the cartridge was loaded with nine lead balls. Someone please correct me.
I have one now which is Enfield and marked WD but single shot.
SG = nine 9mm lead balls IIRC.

Ah. Beaten to it by Ugs.
 
You must have been there the same time as me - albeit I was over the water at Ajax Bay. We used 7.62mm on our bunnies. Now you mention it, I do recall that there were Browning A5s at Kelly, because the mess there tried to have a clay pigeon shoot - using the boys to throw NAAFI plates because there was no trap...
At Byron the LI or Guards ( it was in 83) had a few and their challenge was to walk up to a flock of geese and see how many you could kill with one shot.

Bend over and put the shotgun at goose head height and let go. Carnage.

Also saw an Elephant seal shot with a 66. again carnage.
 
Shotguns as a 12 bore key to facilitate rapid entry?
Hollywood loves them but the potential for collateral damage is obvious.
I have been on a drugs job where a thermic lance was used to get through a steel door at the address.
Chain saws have been used elsewhere, not the UK, a possible Urban Myth is the suspect bracing his back against the door which caused discontinuance of that practice.

RMP is on the butt of that Browning, could it have been an RMP close protection team weapon from days gone by?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
At Byron the LI or Guards ( it was in 83) had a few and their challenge was to walk up to a flock of geese and see how many you could kill with one shot.

Bend over and put the shotgun at goose head height and let go. Carnage.

Also saw an Elephant seal shot with a 66. again carnage.
83 I think it would have been 3LI as 2LI sent a company or two in late 82. 1LI went as a Bn in 85.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Shotguns as a 12 bore key to facilitate rapid entry?
Hollywood loves them but the potential for collateral damage is obvious.
Could you explain the obvious to me please ?
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Last edited:

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Exactly.
Having used SGs as MOE tools using duckbills and Hattons,* I was at a loss.
Perhaps there are perceived potential problems by those not trained in their use, if so I'd be interested to hear them.
* No, not on the same tool.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Exactly.
Having used SGs as MOE tools using duckbills and Hattons,* I was at a loss.
Perhaps there are perceived potential problems by those not trained in their use, if so I'd be interested to hear them.
* No, not on the same tool.
Even with a hollow core door the angle of shot and the internal frame would disrupt and disperse the powder and wadding, a firing it directly at lock would do the same, it has to penetrate a 1/4 of wood, the 1/2 of lock, made of metal, and then another 1/4 of wood (thinnest door I could think of), the most dangerous part of the shot, the wadding would have lost too much energy.
 
Last edited:

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Even with a hollow core door the angle of shot and the internal frame would disrupt and disperse the powder and wadding, a firing it directly at lock would do the same, it has to penetrate a 1/4 of wood, the 1/2 of lock, made of metal, and then another 1/4 of wood (thinnest door I could think of), the most dangerous part of the shot, the wadding would have lost too much energy.
No, I meant popularly perceived potential problems.
 
Risk assessments were invented for you :D

Is there a kiddie, an innocent, on the other side of the door.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
The shotguns would have been originally purchased as a one-off cash buy for operational use ("urgent operational requirement/ UOR"), rather than as a planned military procurement (e.g. like a machine gun). Therefore there would have been no fixed military specification - they'd just buy whichever guns the supplier had in stock, and of course sporting guns have lots of barrel and choke options.

Later, because the shotgun received its L32A1 designation, it'd be an approved "cash purchase" for other military requirements. I'm guessing, therefore, that there were several batches of these guns bought between 1960 and 1980(?).

As yours is marked to a specific purpose - Royal Military Police - its likely that there was a specific requirement for a shorter barrel, and they had time to order a special batch from the supplier. I expect that the majority of these guns in store (if they still exist) have no unit marks and are of several standard commercial barrel lengths.

I'm fairly sure that I've seen specimens in-service with short (24"?) and long (30"?) barrels.
I think I can safely say there none in store. At least there weren't the last time I looked!
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
Chain saws have been used elsewhere, not the UK, a possible Urban Myth is the suspect bracing his back against the door which caused discontinuance of that practice.
"Think of it as evolution in action" - Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Are you fitted with a dimmer switch or do you practice in front of a mirror?

Using a handheld door ram is in no way comparable to firing a cartridge load of pellets going through a door at 1200 feet per second . How specific enough is that for you in regard to shotguns being a bad idea in opening locked doors.
There are no pellets in breaching rounds, they are powder based frangible rounds, the most solid thing in a breaching round is the paper wadding, that, on going through a door (and you do not aim at the door, but the intersection of the door and jamb where the lock is at a 45degree downwards angle) virtually atomises as it bases through wood and metal plate.

Are you angling to feature in @ooooh_matron sigblock
 
There are no pellets in breaching rounds, they are powder based frangible rounds, the most solid thing in a breaching round is the paper wadding, that, on going through a door (and you do not aim at the door, but the intersection of the door and jamb where the lock is at a 45degree downwards angle) virtually atomises as it bases through wood and metal plate.

Are you angling to feature in @ooooh_matron sigblock
Atomises it, no shrapnel, I really cannot imagine why their use is banned in so many places.
I am not buying what you are selling , mate, but the fact that you have 'a list' comes as absolutely no surprise to anyone.
Knock yourself out.
 
Top