Rights during phase 2

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by MrsK, Jun 20, 2008.

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  1. Hi everyone I'd like some advice please.

    A friend of mine was kicked off his course during phase 2 training and was forced to transfer to another corps. He was given no warning and was not given the opportunity to attempt a trade test. He had never been in any trouble and had his CR a few weeks previously with no major issues being raised. Several SNCOs argued on his behalf to be told the decision is final and not open to discussion.

    He now has 18 months left to serve doing a job he hates. Should he have been allowed to take a trade test or been given some warning, or is the decision of the chief instructor final? Also is there any way of him getting out earlier or should be just wait out and serve the rest of his time?
  2. Sorry, no answer to your question.

    Just wanted to ask how common that is?
  3. Depends on the reason for being kicked off the course, you're being as vague as a vague thing
  4. Having just left a job as the Senior Instructor in a technical training school although RAF (I'm not) I can confirm that the decision would be that of the Chief Instructor however. He/ She would not have taken this decision in isolation, in fact far from it, there would have been significant discussion with all those involved including the individual and the higher echelons of the recruiting & training establishment. Decisions like this are not taken likely by any stretch of the imagination as there are financial, personal and employment repurcussions, the framework is laid out in order to comply with current employment legislation as far as practicable.

    Decisions like this are made for all the right reasons under a tried and tested framework, consideration is given to the needs of both the Army and the individual, it would be unfair on both should someone who is not suited, able or likely to achieve competence with additional support be allowed to continue. Not everybody is suited to the career they initially embark on, sometimes accepting that can be difficult.
  5. If he is in Phase 2 training why was he getting a CR? If he was in training long enough to receive a report of some sort, such as a Course Report/progress report I feel it unlikely they had not been tested or in some way measured. Otherwise the report or appraisal would be pretty bland.

    Likewise the move to another capbadge is not a move that just happens out of the blue.

    Sorry MrsK, but this doesn´t add up right.

    Are ou telling us all you know?

    And if you are, I feel you should be asking him if he is being straight with you.
  6. Although a matelot, I am an instructor in a Phase 2 Establishment.

    Students do not, I repeat, DO NOT get kicked off course without good reason and there is a process that you must adhere to and it is a drawn out process-believe me, even complete dross get given plenty of opportunity to improve.

    Either you're not telling the full story or 'your friend' isn't being open with you and telling you all the facts.
  7. MrBane

    MrBane LE Moderator Reviewer Reviews Editor

    Yeah, agree with other posters. You're not telling us something here. The Army, for all its little quirks, doesn't just shaft someone out of a course and more importantly, out of a capbadge.

    C'mon. What was it? Drugs? Fighting? Sexual relations with the Staff?

    Seriously though, it simply doesn't make sense. Tell us everything and we can help. Tell us nothing, and we'll just assume you weren't giving a reach-around to keep the DS happy. :)
  8. MrsK,

    I find it hard to believe this, as Chocolate frog says, ‘Sorry but this does not add up right’. . As Chieftiff and Matelot has already stated the decision to remove someone from training is not taken lightly by the Phase 2 schools. There is a central policy issued by the Director General Training and Education that provides a standardised framework to manage, deliver and record measures of Remedial Training taken to address poor performance during initial training. Compliance with this policy is checked by the Director Individual Training Capability who carries out evaluation visit on all the Defence phase 2 schools. Basically we can’t and would not want to just kick people of courses; each of the schools must have a document process that covers remedial training and removal from training.

    I suspect that you friend may not have given you the complete story here.

    The real issue here is that your friend is in a trade that he is not enjoying and is thinking of leaving. I think he has 3 broad options:

    a. Stick with his current trade and soldier on.
    b. Stick with his current trade for another 18 months and then leave.
    c. Change trade again and soldier on.
  9. B_AND_T

    B_AND_T LE Book Reviewer

    So how come I am in the AGC(SPS) and not the REME then.

    But the other posters a right, this doesn't add up.
  10. Maybe you were just too good for them.... :twisted:

    And I agree with the others; something smells - things like this don't happen.

  11. MrBane

    MrBane LE Moderator Reviewer Reviews Editor

    You tell me.

    Point is, unless it's a medical reason, or you're a complete mong at the trade, it's very, very rare you ever hear of someone that has been forcefully shifted capbadge at Phase 2
  12. No updates on this matter then?
  13. Thanks for your replies everyone, sorry I couldn't be more specific.

    The guy is just as bewildered himself, I know him very well and he's not the type to bullshit. He's very hard working, intelligent and just an all round decent bloke. It just doesn't make sense that he should be kicked out of his corps without given a fair chance. There were also other trades within his corps that he may have been more suited to yet was not allowed to give any of those a go.

    I know personally his troop sergeant at the time who was completely behind him, but got his knuckles rapped for trying to stick up for him.

    Chocolate frog you are probably right and it was just a progress report he was given rather than a CR. I know he'd taken a theory test and scored 97% (it's passing the practical exam which would've determined him passing out or not).

    I'm sorry this all sounds so vague, but this really is all he knows. One minute things were fine and the next he was marched in to the deputy chief instructors office and told he was no longer on the course.
  14. Just thought of something, although sounds a tad extreme.

    If he was on his course with required a high vetting level and something flashed up, this could be why.

    Just guessing though.
  15. Every time I hear a story about someone being shafted by the system I always think "ok, what's the real story?". It's amazing the amount of guys who claim to have been booted out for apparently battering an officer or similar, but it later turns out that were kicked out for drugs. More kudos for ultraviolence than for being a loser eh?

    There's absolutely no way that somebody at phase 2 would be frogmarched into his chief instructor without warning, pulled off the course with no warning and then shunted off to another capbadge without knowing the reason.

    He's lying to you, MrsK.