Discussion in 'Weapons, Equipment & Rations' started by TheSpecialOne, Jun 4, 2010.
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Does anyone know why Rifles Warrant Officers wear sword slings without actually carrying a sword?
You mean sword belts? as does many other WO2's without swords
When the rifles were formed the Baker rifle did not take a conventional spike bayonet, but a 24in sword (bayonet)
Thus the old order, which I assume and hope has been carried forward in the amalgamation:
Fix Swords ( Never bayonets)
See! I know that and I was Foot Guards! lol
Colour Serjeants(correct spelling)as Bn. Orderley Officer; Band Serjeants; Colour Serjeants and WOII's all wear Sword Belts: Many years ago in the Peninsular War Senior NCO's and Warrant Officers carried 24" Swords for their Personal Weapons; nominally a Baker Rifle; as the spike Bayonet issued for the Musket(Brown Bess)did NOT fit the Baker Rifle: Sword Belts were worn originally by 60th Rifles and 95th Rifles and 43rd&52nd Light Infantry(Greenjackets; later Royal Greenjackets and now Rifles(once more): The Sword Belts are manufactured in Patent Leather,
I recall Warrant Officers Class 2 and the Drum Major of Scottish regiments wearing sword belts and slings in No2 Dress though not, in the case of the WOs, in No1 Dress, I believe all Bns of The SCOTS still do.
Correct, most Infantry W.O's wear them in fact, though usually in brown leather or White Buff as appropriate. They are "Sword-slings" though, as oppposed to "Sword belts". They are slung from a concealed waist-belt and the sword is meant to hang from them attached to the metal smap-hooks on the ends
I suppose the reason they are worn however, is that W.O's for some time now have worn "officer pattern" uniform items to differentiate themselves from SNCO's and other ranks. They don't go the whole hog though, too expensive. In the RGJ for example, a WO2 would wear Highland Brogues, Sword sling, Leather Gloves, pale khaki tie, Ball-Buttons and side-hat or Officer Pattern No/1 Dress hat as appropriate. He wouldn't wear Officers No.1 uniform or Mess-kit though. I imagine the Rifles are pretty much the same as the RGJ uniform and accoutrements were largely adopted for the new regiment.
Finally, this has sweet FA to do with the Sword-bayonet carried with the Baker Rifle (and others), which was not carried by Rifle Officers of the 60th or Rifle Brigade. They used to carry a curved-sabre of the light Cavalry pattern but nowadays carry a straight sword of the Infantry Pattern.
Incidentally Snaijper, WO's didn't exist at the time of the Peninsular War, the rank is a lot younger than that! Are you by any chance confusing this with the Crossbelt ? I seen that Rifles SNCOs wear these nowadays.
Why do the Rifles (and RGJ before them) have C/Sjt's when they don't have colours ?
We do have colours they are on the battle honours on the No 2 belt and cross belt worn by SNCO and Officers on the penninsula badge,
hope this helps
swift and bold.
FFS, bring back the Glosters or at least the RGBW, we all knew where we stood then! (back to back!)
Edited due to Pimms
(sigh) No, you DON'T have Colours because Colours are embroidered flags carrying a regiments battle Honours. Rifle regiments have never carried Colours. Instead, a selection of the Regiment's main Battle Honours is carried, in the case of the RGJ and their antecedent regiments, and now the The Rifles, on the Regimental Badge, or in the case of the old 2nd Gurkha Rifles, on a ceremonial "Truncheon", a FOGB wooden staff.
Hope This Helps!
Does does this apply to the RA also (as their colours are the guns)?
The RA don't have Colour Sgts either.
Jaeger you are correct, but in the early 1900s C/sgts in the KRRC and the RB were called Musketry sergeants as they were responsible for musketry training. the Sjt in the Greenjackets was 1st Bn only, 2nd and 3rd kept the Sgt. The Ox and Bucks kept a lot of their old traditions such as having "Letter A" Coy etc.
Hope this helps.
Correct. They're Staff Sergeants.
Separate names with a comma.