Rifles Hot or Not - Show us yer kit!

When he drags himself out of bed at lunchtime, show him these. It's a factory refurb L1A1 with a new barrel and new furniture, shot at 300m.

Off the bag, target rings are 10cm, 20cm, 30cm etc...

Then prone freehand, take 1. the 4 ring is 20cm wide, and the figure is about 45cm wide:

Take 2: same again
Jesus Christ. Interesting vids, but the weapon handling makes me cringe.
 

4(T)

LE
Did any of you use those massive scopes on one ? How good where they

Do you mean the (massive!) Starlight night sight? The big sausage-shape thing as big as the rifle?

Well, yes. I must admit I could see feck all through them - just a green mush and your eye being sucked out by the press-to-open rubber eyepiece. I thought it was probably more effective just to eat lots of carrots and learn to use a white stripe on the upper handguard.

Plain old unit SLRs were often surprisingly accurate with a scope fitted. My unit at one point received some topcovers fitted with a Kassnar wide-angle scope (some sort of UOR). Our rifles - many of which had had a fair few hard landings in para weapons sleeves - were all generally shooting about 2 MOA. Not bad at all.
 
Do you mean the (massive!) Starlight night sight? The big sausage-shape thing as big as the rifle?

Well, yes. I must admit I could see feck all through them - just a green mush and your eye being sucked out by the press-to-open rubber eyepiece. I thought it was probably more effective just to eat lots of carrots and learn to use a white stripe on the upper handguard.

Plain old unit SLRs were often surprisingly accurate with a scope fitted. My unit at one point received some topcovers fitted with a Kassnar wide-angle scope (some sort of UOR). Our rifles - many of which had had a fair few hard landings in para weapons sleeves - were all generally shooting about 2 MOA. Not bad at all.
I have seen one in a museum, it must have been heavy as thump
 
Plaster old chap... can you give some more details when you ask these random questions?

Do you mean the SLR, and what "massive scopes" are you talking about?

I am only aware of a couple of optical sights for the SLR. One was the SUIT (sight unit infantry trilux) which looked like half a binocular. The other one was the "Starlight Scope" Individual Weapon Sight (IWS) which was a first generation image intensifier. It did have some magnification and could be used in daylight with a pinhole mask, but was primarily a night vision aid.

They were both pretty good for their day, and were better than anything else around. Always remember that an optical scope does not affect the accuracy of a rifle, it simply helps you find your target! A plain optical sight helps you gather more light and on average gives you an extra half hour at dawn and dusk. It also makes sighting easier by bringing the target and sight into focus at the same time.. something that "more mature" folk like us find difficult at times! The IWS was bulky and although not as heavy as it looked was not easy to hold. They were mostly used for surveillance rather than engagement.

The main weakness of the strap on sights for the SLR, was that they were usually fixed to the top cover, which was not the most rigid and precision built bit of the rifle. That said, the sights seemed to have been good enough to meet most requirements..
I can only say what I have seen, the thing was at leat 4 ins over the barrel. The large lens in the front was at least 4 ins wide , if I don't ask I don't get told.
 
I went to a sale in January it had an SLR Slide with a very unusual fitting on it think two back sights on the top of the slide. Was it anything to do with it.?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
If you think it was unwieldy on a GPMG then try fitted to the 84. Bloody hard work
 
What aspect of the weapons handling displayed in the video is poor?

I can’t see any bad weapons handling at all.
My inner skill at arms instructor sometimes comes out when I see some of these civilian range vids.
A round falls out when the magazine is fitted, not good. Making ready by using the holding open device, certainly not in any pamphlet. And last but not least, unloading with the mag fitted. Remove mag, then cock the weapon to look inside the chamber.
Admittedly I am not a gun owner and all my shooting was done on military ranges. I am curious about why the working parts were locked to the rear, not let forward and the action fired off. Is that a SOP for civilian ranges?
 
On the two I use mags are out and flags put in, don't use the plastic ones they only last one trip
 
My inner skill at arms instructor sometimes comes out when I see some of these civilian range vids.
A round falls out when the magazine is fitted, not good. Making ready by using the holding open device, certainly not in any pamphlet. And last but not least, unloading with the mag fitted. Remove mag, then cock the weapon to look inside the chamber.
Admittedly I am not a gun owner and all my shooting was done on military ranges. I am curious about why the working parts were locked to the rear, not let forward and the action fired off. Is that a SOP for civilian ranges?
I love comments like this. They're an interesting kind of nitpicking virtue-signalling. Nothing is unsafe whatsoever, and yet cos I didn't do it exactly according to the pams, it's the end of the world.

"A round falls out when the magazine is fitted, not good. " Faulty mag. Right lip isn't quite long enough. It sometimes loses the second to last round as a result too. But I'm sure that's my fault and bad handling or something... :roll:

"Making ready by using the holding open device, certainly not in any pamphlet." Our range rules require the bolt to be locked back when not on the firing point, aside from with a Stgw 57 which a) doesn't have a hold-open, and b) has a loaded chamber indicator. So we make ready by simply dropping the bolt. Why would you expect us to do anything else than just press the bolt release? Should I be letting the bolt forward, applying the mag and then cocking it just because in the British doctrine the bolt would be forward? When according to our range rules it has to be back?

"And last but not least, unloading with the mag fitted. " Oh dear, it's the end of the world. I hooked the bolt before removing a mag I knew to be empty on one occasion... Such terrible gun handling :rolleyes:

"I am curious about why the working parts were locked to the rear, not let forward and the action fired off. Is that a SOP for civilian ranges?" Yes. Swiss range rules require the bolt to be locked back.
 

4(T)

LE
My inner skill at arms instructor sometimes comes out when I see some of these civilian range vids.
A round falls out when the magazine is fitted, not good. Making ready by using the holding open device, certainly not in any pamphlet. And last but not least, unloading with the mag fitted. Remove mag, then cock the weapon to look inside the chamber.
Admittedly I am not a gun owner and all my shooting was done on military ranges. I am curious about why the working parts were locked to the rear, not let forward and the action fired off. Is that a SOP for civilian ranges?

Funny how its all burned into you. Someone handed me an L1A1 the other day, and i was able to do load/unload and all drill movements instantly and without hesitation. I blame RSM Sandhurst...


Yes, there is a general conflict between military range safety procedure and that commonly used on civilian ranges, including Bisley. The military practice is to procve clear and then "ease springs" or equivalent (bolt closed, action fired off). Civvie practice is to have bolt open, safety flag in - or bolt/working parts entirely removed.

This used to conflict in military/civilian matches, such as the Methuen. There, the civvie teams were obliged to follow military range control practice. I think us ex-mob quietly enjoyed moving off the point with a slung rifle and bolt properly closed and made safe.
 
Funny how its all burned into you. Someone handed me an L1A1 the other day, and i was able to do load/unload and all drill movements instantly and without hesitation. I blame RSM Sandhurst...


Yes, there is a general conflict between military range safety procedure and that commonly used on civilian ranges, including Bisley. The military practice is to procve clear and then "ease springs" or equivalent (bolt closed, action fired off). Civvie practice is to have bolt open, safety flag in - or bolt/working parts entirely removed.

This used to conflict in military/civilian matches, such as the Methuen. There, the civvie teams were obliged to follow military range control practice. I think us ex-mob quietly enjoyed moving off the point with a slung rifle and bolt properly closed and made safe.
At Desert Brutality and 2GAC matches they do it the mil way (although people are allowed to use flags if they prefer). Having at least been a poxy cadet and UOTC peon I had at least done it that way 2+ decades ago and it was easy to get back into that mindset, once the initial "huh" had passed. It's a discussion point in an upcoming vid I filmed with Karl, cos it's something that surprises some people.
 

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