Rifled shotgun barrels

#1
Reading through the Home office 'guidance to the Police' document, at section 3.2.ii), it states prohibited weapons include:

any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges (section 5(1)(ab));

It would therefore appear that buying an additional rifled barrel (for the purposes of hunting with slugs) for a pump-action owuld be illegal, even with a FAC.
Has anyone clarified this with the police, and if so, why is it consider perfectly ok to own a magazine fed full-bore rifled with a bolt-action, and not a pump-action slug gun (which would generally have a lower magazine capacity and effective range, even when firing sabot)?
 
#2
a rifled barrel for a pump or semi shotgun is section 5 and not allowed on a FAC.
you are not allowed semi or pump action centerfire rifles, a rifled barrel for a shottie fits into this catagory.

yes, it is stupid that pump-action centerfire firearms are considered like semis under UK law.
 
#3
Reading through the Home office 'guidance to the Police' document, at section 3.2.ii), it states prohibited weapons include:

any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges (section 5(1)(ab));

It would therefore appear that buying an additional rifled barrel (for the purposes of hunting with slugs) for a pump-action owuld be illegal, even with a FAC.
Has anyone clarified this with the police, and if so, why is it consider perfectly ok to own a magazine fed full-bore rifled with a bolt-action, and not a pump-action slug gun (which would generally have a lower magazine capacity and effective range, even when firing sabot)?
Shotguns with greater magazine capacity than 3 rounds have to go on an FAC as Section 1. A shotgun with a rifled barrel is also technically a rifle anyway, and so Section 1.

The hallowed authorities in their wisdom evidently decided that pump-action full bore rifles look and awful lot like a semi-auto, and thus drew the "prohibited" line to include them....
 
#4
Thanks for that, both of you. I thought it might be as simple (as as shortsighted) as that!

Looks like I'll just have to store the rifled barrel for my Mossberg 'offshore' for hunting trips, and buy a centrefire rifle for the UK.

Interestingly, many parts of the US ban hunting with rifles during Firearms season, as slug guns are considered to have a lesser effective range, and therefore 'safer' in areas where hunting lands adjoin residential areas.
 
#5
If this is a wah then you probably already know that the slug carries the rifling for solid slug "shotguns" have no rifling if they did they would not be shotguns. To my knowledge shotguns have never been rifled, that is not to say it has not been done but not for mass production. There were shotguns made with a rifles barrel under the shotgun barrels so farmers could slot foxes. But these would require FA certification. Insert barrels would also be the same. By the way slug will kill at half mile aiming it would be tricky though, however at fifty metres slug will turn you inside out and is very high on the list of things not to be shot with, my personal belief is breaching round would be worse but slug delivers a massive amount of energy 1 oz of lead hmmm.
 
#6
#7
#8
The standard military/police spec 870 wingmaster is widely used out here in Canada, the solid slug ammunition used is the low recoil version and the slug itself "rifled" as opposed to the barrel. Other than that the only real difference to a standard 870 is a 5 round magazine.
Yup..that's what we (used to) use here., but the new generation are rifled barrels for better accuracy.
 
#9
If this is a wah then you probably already know that the slug carries the rifling for solid slug "shotguns" have no rifling if they did they would not be shotguns. (snip)
[no_wah]In the US, pump guns such as the Mossberg 500 and Remington 870 are frequently sold as a 'combo'. The regular smoothbore shotgun barrel can be unscrewed and replaced with a rifled barrel. When firing sabot bullets, this gives the weapon the ability to attain a 2.5" 5-round group at 100yds.[no_wah]
 
#10
If this is a wah then you probably already know that the slug carries the rifling for solid slug "shotguns" have no rifling if they did they would not be shotguns. To my knowledge shotguns have never been rifled, that is not to say it has not been done but not for mass production. There were shotguns made with a rifles barrel under the shotgun barrels so farmers could slot foxes. But these would require FA certification. Insert barrels would also be the same. By the way slug will kill at half mile aiming it would be tricky though, however at fifty metres slug will turn you inside out and is very high on the list of things not to be shot with, my personal belief is breaching round would be worse but slug delivers a massive amount of energy 1 oz of lead hmmm.
Bernster - no wah.
you can get rifled 12 gauge barrels for slugs, most big US makers like mossberg and remmie offer them, quite popular they are too.

Edit - beaten to it by GB.
 
#11
An then there was the Paradox.
Put simply, a Paradox is a combination gun that can fire both pellets like a shotgun and bullets like a rifle (A paradox round is a slug rather than a true bullet), by means of a rifled choke.

Press Release
 
#12
One can also get rifled chokes for shotguns with screw in chokes. The jury seems to be still out on the use of these in the UK.

The Paradox was a shotgun with the last 6 inches or so rifled. My mate had a Holland & Holland one with a burst barrel.!
 
#13
Yup..that's what we (used to) use here., but the new generation are rifled barrels for better accuracy.
Nice, apparently we might be upgrading ours soon and a rifled barrel makes sense if you're firing slugs.

I do like the 870 though. Nothing more satisfying than the "sound of **** off!" as my firearms instructor described racking it.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#14
Slugs only have rifling if cast with it, many arent, I cast slugs on a commercial basis (havent sold any for a year or two) but they werent rifled, would go well in a Paradox which are UK legal, sadly completely rifled barrels are a no no. If you peek into the US forums many tests have been done with plain and rifled slugs in smooth and rifled barrels, its a big business over there as the shotgun season (deer etc) is longer than rifle, shorter than muzzle loader and again bow.
I load my own (or rather used to) I use an Ithaca 37 8 shot deerslayer police special from the 1980's and its good enough to group respectably at 100 yds on a fig 11.
My FAC is conditioned for boar and ground game with it!
 
#15
This is some interesting stuff, I have always loved shotguns, the Remy 870 and saiga 12 being my current favourites. They will in my opinion always have a placed close up, in buildings as anti personell and breaching along with CS delivery. I alway felt the mossburg and lots of other more gucci makes were to complicated.
But back to the main point, if it's rifled it's not a shotgun, I am happy to be corrected but I think I am right.
 
#16
after 20 seconds on google.......................................

Shotgun slug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Much later shotguns were produced with rifled barrels, and slugs were designed to be fired from them with spin stabilization. As these specialized "shotguns" were far more accurate than a smoothbore gun, they also usually featured greatly improved sights. Many of these slugs use saboted sub-caliber projectiles, resulting in greatly improved external ballistics performance.
O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc. - Firearms, Shotguns, Rifles, Accessories, and Precision Machining

The Fully Rifled Slug Barrel: Mossberg® has been making rifles and rifling barrels for years, therefore, it seemed obvious: If rifled barrels improved the accuracy of rifles, then why not a rifled bore for a shotgun barrel. A rifled bore has a shallow groove machined into the full length of the bore with a very slight twist. The grooves impart rotary motion to a projectile, which results in improved and consistent accuracy (the uncut surface areas are called "lands."
Intent on providing the ultimate in slug shooting accuracy and after extensive testing of barrels and ammunition, Mossberg® began producing fully rifled shotgun barrels in concert with distributing newly engineered sabot style slug ammunition. Shortly thereafter, the major ammunition manufacturers began producing their own sabot style slugs specifically for the rifled barrels, while scope manufacturers designed optics to withstand a shotgun's recoil. A combination of innovative products from within the firearms industry was the dramatic response to shooters' demands for long-range shotgun accuracy. The results were impressive, taking the average bushel-basket group at 50 yards, to 3" groups at 100 yards. Complementing features like improved rifle-style sights, integral scope bases and Dual-Comb® stocks were developed specifically for the new slug guns.
While sabot-style slugs perform best in fully rifled barrels, traditional rifled slugs have also improved immensely, and are recommended for smooth-bore barrels.


you can get fully rifled barrels for shotguns, yes this does make them 'rifles' under UK law, you can still use shot in them but the pattern they throw is 'interesting' ie- all over de place.
Its not illegal to have a single barrel fully rifled 12 gauge in the UK, as long as its on your FAC, there is a few about.
I was working in a Gunshop a few years ago when we recieved a rifled barrel for a pump action mossie by mistake in an order from the states, it caused us no end of hassles trying to sell it on and with the police, so in the end we disposed of it as the easiest and cheapest option

and may i ask how, and where, you are getting???????.....
They will in my opinion always have a placed close up, in buildings as anti personell and breaching along with CS delivery
as these are totaly illegal under UK law of civvies.
this is the forum for 'shooting sports, you sound like a swat walt.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#17
Its not illegal to have a single barrel fully rifled 12 gauge in the UK, as long as its on your FAC, there is a few about
Ok I'll agree but the act pretty much means that you cant have pumps or auto's. This leaves the Marlin Goose gun (bolt action) or a single barrelled single shot of which there is very little market.
There was a spate of 12 bore pistols between the 88 and 97 ammendments but these were jumped all over by the Home Office. Basically rifled short barrelled 12 bore pumps or autos without stocks.
 
#18
The Brenneke slug has "rifling" ribs, but frankly do not contibute much to stability and are more about allowing the slug to fire through chokes (though I wouldn't!). The wad screwed to the back of the slug does most of the work as it effectively becomes a drag stabilised projectile.

Brenneke is capable of 4" grouping at 100 yards from a supported position, which should be good enough for most targets - piggies, car boots etc. Anything beyond this is dodgy as the slug has a ballistic coefficient somewhere in the sideboard class!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#19
The Brenneke slug has "rifling" ribs, but frankly do not contibute much to stability and are more about allowing the slug to fire through chokes (though I wouldn't!). The wad screwed to the back of the slug does most of the work as it effectively becomes a drag stabilised projectile.

Brenneke is capable of 4" grouping at 100 yards from a supported position, which should be good enough for most targets - piggies, car boots etc. Anything beyond this is dodgy as the slug has a ballistic coefficient somewhere in the sideboard class!
Pretty much what I found, the slugs I cast are Lyman sabot shockers about an ounce and a 1/4. No need for rifling etc as the front is only about 20 bore, the slug isnt a sabot unless you count the wad/shotcup. The design is a giant eley wasp airgun pellet and the skirt must expand to achieve some sort of seal if it parts from the wad in the barrel (I doubt this). The slug will comfortably fire through a full chocked 12 bore and with the right load will group slightly better than 4 inches at 100 yards. Minute of deer or better!
 
#20
In conversation with another Arrser, whom is intending to become a RFD/manufacturer, and who is setting-up his new work-shop as we speak, the idea of converting single barrel 12 gauge shotguns, like a greener GP or a Baikel, into rifled secion 1 firearms has been discussed at length.
rifled 12 gauge barrel blanks are avalible from a few sources, turning/fitting and proofing is no real drama, the major hassle would be getting them certified with the plod as section 1 firearms.
personaly i think there would be a ready market for this type of item.

a rifled greener with slug for the boar Ugly? now i know that would tickle your fancy........................
 
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