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rifle upgrades

Picatinny_Rail said:
No, it fits to a surefire flash hider, which would be a replacement for the standard FE already fitted.

So you screw and loctite the new flash hider on. Is the suppressor then a quick attach/detach item?
 
Thanks for the reply PR....I guess not a snowballs chance of a pic of rifle and supressor together? :lol:







ah I thought I'd chance my arm asking :oops:
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Been on this board before.
 
EX_STAB said:
Bravo_Zulu said:
.338lapua_magnum said:
Bravo_Zulu said:
petergriffen said:
Is there actually a " sound suppressor" in service with the A2 mod now?...might be a handy bit of kit.

Except that the A2 fires a supersonic round, so the thump might be a bit quieter, but the crack will be just as loud.

Suppressors on rifles are gimmicks for Americans. They are supremely pointless unless you're using subsonic ammunition. I think, although I'm not certain, that 9mm Parabellum FMJ is supersonic, whereas 9MM JSP (as used by HM's finest) is subsonic. (No doubt an ATO will correct me here...)

Some European armies do have suppressors on their weapons to hide the muzzle flash (not that there's much of that on an L85 being fired on repetition), but because they have to be pretty solid to cope with the gases, they can't be field-stripped for cleaning, and are therefore regarded as disposable, despite their not-insignificant cost.

Also, I'd rather have either a bayonet or UGL than a suppressor.

edited for spelling

Are you truly nuts? A Suppressor is one of the best bits of kit you can retrospectively fiit to a firearm. The Finns have been doing it for years. Even the 'loud' calibers such as the 50BMG benefits enormously from a fitted suppressor. Go and do your research on suppressors before you waffle hot gas. You may wish to start with 'Welrod' .

You haven't actually given a reason for having a suppressed weapon. Whilst having a quieter weapon might minimise the effect on your ears, the disadvantages outweigh this. The people you're firing at will not be able to easily determine your direction because the crack drowns out the thump, and the ability to fit a bayonet or UGL seem to me to be far more important, especially in built-up areas. Suppressors reduce muzzle velocity (as in the 9mm Welrod), reducing the range of the weapon and also (by some accounts) reducing accuracy. Also, it's another thing to maintain, an extra expense which isn't strictly necessary (why spend money on suppressors which aren't vital when we are chronically short of Osprey?)
And Welrod is totally irrelevant: we are talking about suppressors on a semi-automatic or automatic rifle firing a supersonic round to ranges of several hundred metres.

So do tell us how you estimate the range and direction of the enemy fire by use of the crack-thump method if you don't hear the thump. Muppet.

Suppressors do not reduce muzzle velocity unless they are designed to.
Suppressors do not reduce accuracy unless they are badly designed.
Whilst a suppressor may make it difficult to fit a bayonet of current design there is no reason that such a problem could not be overcome. Same goes for UGL.

Nobody was talking about buying non essential kit instead of equipment in short supply so that argument is a red herring.

What do your fellow cadets think? Have you considered asking a grown up?

Unless you've got some experience, finding the enemy by the crack and thump method is very hard, precisely because the crack is straight above your head. It takes practice, and very few nigs can do it well.

Suppressors do reduce accuracy. Having a bloody great big tube on the end of your rifle will change the balance, forcing you to change position and thus changing eye relief slightly, which means the rifle is no longer correctly zeroed.
This single mod would require the rifle, the bayonet, the UGL, the BFA all to be redesigned, and as for the money, where do you think it'll come from? I doubt the MOD will stop buying art and paying civvy typists £300K just to buy us some suppressors.

This is one of those arguments which could keep going ad infinitum, so having made my case I'll leave it there so you can continue talking about Picatinny rails until the cows come home. Enjoy 8)
 
Bravo_Zulu said:
Suppressors do reduce accuracy. Having a bloody great big tube on the end of your rifle will change the balance, forcing you to change position and thus changing eye relief slightly, which means the rifle is no longer correctly zeroed.

I can't see how it would "change the eye relief" of a correctly set-up firing position. I suspect it will make very little difference to the balance of the rifle; and ballistics aside, shouldn't change the zero more than the addition of a bayonet to the end of the rifle. You're not suggesting that we shouldn't fix bayonets, are you?

I've heard of so many things that will "break the zero" - breaking open your SLR, taking your SUIT off its mount, taking off your SUSAT to clean it - and none has ever really mattered (I've tried all of the above, didn't notice a difference; certainly never enough to rezero, and I'm a perfectionist).

What made much more of a difference is how you hold the weapon - the barrel is bendy, and pulling on the handgrip with the left hand will change the zero - get out a collimator and try it sometime. In the hands of the average shot, holding and firing will be a far larger source of error than any proper suppressor fit.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Bravo_Zulu said:
EX_STAB said:
Bravo_Zulu said:
.338lapua_magnum said:
Bravo_Zulu said:
petergriffen said:
Is there actually a " sound suppressor" in service with the A2 mod now?...might be a handy bit of kit.

Except that the A2 fires a supersonic round, so the thump might be a bit quieter, but the crack will be just as loud.

Suppressors on rifles are gimmicks for Americans. They are supremely pointless unless you're using subsonic ammunition. I think, although I'm not certain, that 9mm Parabellum FMJ is supersonic, whereas 9MM JSP (as used by HM's finest) is subsonic. (No doubt an ATO will correct me here...)

Some European armies do have suppressors on their weapons to hide the muzzle flash (not that there's much of that on an L85 being fired on repetition), but because they have to be pretty solid to cope with the gases, they can't be field-stripped for cleaning, and are therefore regarded as disposable, despite their not-insignificant cost.

Also, I'd rather have either a bayonet or UGL than a suppressor.

edited for spelling

Are you truly nuts? A Suppressor is one of the best bits of kit you can retrospectively fiit to a firearm. The Finns have been doing it for years. Even the 'loud' calibers such as the 50BMG benefits enormously from a fitted suppressor. Go and do your research on suppressors before you waffle hot gas. You may wish to start with 'Welrod' .

You haven't actually given a reason for having a suppressed weapon. Whilst having a quieter weapon might minimise the effect on your ears, the disadvantages outweigh this. The people you're firing at will not be able to easily determine your direction because the crack drowns out the thump, and the ability to fit a bayonet or UGL seem to me to be far more important, especially in built-up areas. Suppressors reduce muzzle velocity (as in the 9mm Welrod), reducing the range of the weapon and also (by some accounts) reducing accuracy. Also, it's another thing to maintain, an extra expense which isn't strictly necessary (why spend money on suppressors which aren't vital when we are chronically short of Osprey?)
And Welrod is totally irrelevant: we are talking about suppressors on a semi-automatic or automatic rifle firing a supersonic round to ranges of several hundred metres.

So do tell us how you estimate the range and direction of the enemy fire by use of the crack-thump method if you don't hear the thump. Muppet.

Suppressors do not reduce muzzle velocity unless they are designed to.
Suppressors do not reduce accuracy unless they are badly designed.
Whilst a suppressor may make it difficult to fit a bayonet of current design there is no reason that such a problem could not be overcome. Same goes for UGL.

Nobody was talking about buying non essential kit instead of equipment in short supply so that argument is a red herring.

What do your fellow cadets think? Have you considered asking a grown up?

Unless you've got some experience, finding the enemy by the crack and thump method is very hard, precisely because the crack is straight above your head. It takes practice, and very few nigs can do it well.
Which, apart from showing ignorance, has four-fifths of fokoll to do with your bullshit about suppressors.

Bravo_Zulu said:
Suppressors do reduce accuracy. Having a bloody great big tube on the end of your rifle will change the balance, forcing you to change position and thus changing eye relief slightly, which means the rifle is no longer correctly zeroed.
You really haven't the faintest fucking Scooby about all this do you ?

Bravo_Zulu said:
This single mod would require the rifle, the bayonet, the UGL, the BFA all to be redesigned, and as for the money, where do you think it'll come from? I doubt the MOD will stop buying art and paying civvy typists £300K just to buy us some suppressors.
No it wouldn't you witless cunt.
How many suns do you see in the sky above your planet ?

Bravo_Zulu said:
This is one of those arguments which could keep going ad infinitum,
This is not an argument, that would suggest that two or more competent people putting forward differing views on a subject based on facts.
Both .338lapua_magnum and EX_STAB make good factual points, you have just read too many copies of Combat & Survival.

Bravo_Zulu said:
so having made my case I'll leave it there so you can continue talking about Picatinny rails until the cows come home. Enjoy 8)
The only case you've made is one that supports the use of bolt cutters to remove the fingers from cadet AIs, to prevent them waffling kak about a subject in which their only experience is playing some purile computer game.
But just you scuttle back to your boys & girls at the ACF/CCF, I'm sure they believe your war stories.
 

Picatinny_Rail

Old-Salt
petergriffen said:
Thanks for the reply PR....I guess not a snowballs chance of a pic of rifle and supressor together? :lol:


ah I thought I'd chance my arm asking :oops:

No probs... Here you go so you know i'm not B*****ting !!!

SA80-2.jpg


SA80-1.jpg


Hope this helps
 

Picatinny_Rail

Old-Salt
Bravo_Zulu said:
This single mod would require the rifle, the bayonet, the UGL, the BFA all to be redesigned, and as for the money, where do you think it'll come from? I doubt the MOD will stop buying art and paying civvy typists £300K just to buy us some suppressors.

Errrr no. Sorry. There is no need to redesign anything. Well, ok, there is a need to fit a new flash eliminator, but with the move towards vortex being more and more likely, it makes sense to fit a vortex FE that can also take a can. Therefore, very little cost, other than for cans. As the can fitted to the SA80 in the pics is also the same can fitted to the C8, it is already codified and in the system. So no development costs. So the typists can still look at the art, and the SA80 can be quiet. The in service bayonet can also be fitted to the FE used in the photos. So the only thing that can't be used is the SBFS. But let’s be honest, who wants to fire blanks on ops? And if your training and using blanks, err, you don't need to be silent, and you don't need to hide the flash, as the bullet trap gets in the way, therefore, the original FE can be fitted for training.

It's not perfect I know, but it is better than nothing, and it keeps the typists happy 8)
 
Looks pretty interesting Picatinny_Rail, dont suppose that I could chance my arm and ask what the Db reduction is? :D

Bet that will lead to a few burned hands!
 
I'm surprised that as with the L115 a reflex type moderator hasn't been chosen.

This is much more compact.
RobSA80.JPG

I realise it's a different fitting but that's easily overcome - just thread the nre flash eliminator and provide a locking wheel nut at the muzzle end rather than the rear.

Here it is again:

SA80A2wcan.jpg
 

Picatinny_Rail

Old-Salt
EX_STAB said:
I'm surprised that as with the L115 a reflex type moderator hasn't been chosen.

This is much more compact.

Why are you supprised. Compactness wasn't a major driver. db reduction, and usability were. The fact that the C8 uses the same suppressor as fitted on the SA80 in the photos increases comonality too. Lets also remember, the SA80 has no suppressor in the system. If there is a requirment to equip all the troops, it will go through the same process as the quad rails etc.. It will be tendered, and trialled. And may the best bit win.
 
deleated, double post and shite editing.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
For me the king advantage for a supressor is the maintainance of situational awareness. Battles are quite loud, anything that can quieten down you part of the battle whilst leaving TT with his ears ringing from his AK has got to be good.

I recognise loud has its options too...
 

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