rifle cleaning, hand guard on or off??

#1
While reflecting back on a busy exercise in "germania-stan" i was thinking about a certain thing that i was pulled up on by a corporal.

After a long day on the ranges i stripped my weapon down for cleaning including hand guard, half way though cleaning a corporal had noticed what i had done and continued along the lines of "what are you playing at?"
I replied after having a conversation with unit armourer it was ok to remove handguard and not just an armourers job.

was i wrong?

argument begin!!
 
#3
I have been told that this is 'illegal' stripping.

Don't quote me and don't ask me why. I always used to.

If your unit is **** just don't get caught. Mine now trys to prevent it by putting superglue on the threads.

Gleaming. Well funnily enough, it's not.
 
#4
well this is what sparked my conversation with the unit armourer,

On one previous occasion i had tried to remove the hand guard and found the thread had been glued to prevent removal.

I had noticed the armourer was in my sqn one day and asked him about the matter, he kindly took my rifle out the rack and hammered the screw out and said that its perfectly fine to remove the hand guard. He said that he personally didnt have a problem with hand guard being removed and he was more concerned about the way that some people try to clean gas parts with all the old tricks.
 
#5
Read the AESP cat 201 (1005-L-202-201? it's been a while..) this is the operating instructions - operator level.

When I left 3 years ago, removing the handguard was including in stripping the weapon for cleaning, with the caveat that it should only be removed if the area around the hand guard was 'excessively dirty') Clearly individuals definition of excessively dirty vary.

Personally, as an ex Tiffy Guns, I didn't mind if operators removed the handguard, as long as they put the bloody thing back correctly - sling swivel on the correct side and tightened sufficiently to stop it falling off on a CFT.

Tears, you may find that the application of thread lock (not superglue) is a requirement in the AESP, not bloody mindedness of your armourer.
 
#6
I was once told that once you are a trained soldier you can take it off....

Cant see any harm with taking it off, its not exactly technical stuff is it!
 
#7
For normal daily cleaning or after being on the range, you shouldnt really need to remove the handguard.

If however youve been in the filed for a long period of time and its gawping, then yes you should remove it to give it a decent clean.
 
#8
I've no problems with people taking the handguard off, I do object to people taking the trigger guard off however because they always put it back on incorrectly.
 
#9
at our unit the SOP is to leave the handguard on for daily stripping and cleaning, but to remove that and the buttplate when stripping and cleaning for returning the weapon to the armoury.

im on a rebro so it stays wrapped in a black bag anyway.. :D
 
#10
Super gluing it on? You'll have a laugh trying to fit UGL then!

I always remove and clean it after firing anything off. What do you do If you've got half the training area in there? Shake it and hope it all comes out?

Bonkers, always been told to remove and clean it, like the above poster said it's hardly rocket science.
 
#11
tank6275 said:
well this is what sparked my conversation with the unit armourer,

On one previous occasion i had tried to remove the hand guard and found the thread had been glued to prevent removal.

I had noticed the armourer was in my sqn one day and asked him about the matter, he kindly took my rifle out the rack and hammered the screw out and said that its perfectly fine to remove the hand guard. He said that he personally didnt have a problem with hand guard being removed and he was more concerned about the way that some people try to clean gas parts with all the old tricks.
all screws located here are screwlocked. it's a standard thing with the weapon. it happens BOTH when it's first issued and also if it's taken back for any work on the weapon.

using a normal screwdriver, your hand will slip. use your leatherman and it probably will bend. use a combi tool and a bit of balls, no problem.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#12
This has been a pet hate of my for efffing years, so thanks to the OP for the chance to vent some spleen.

Starting off with….

I originally did my job with an SLR. The rule with the SLR was you polished everything gleaming with the exception of the wood, the top cover, the exterior barrel short of the flash eliminator and, if memory serves, the sights.

Then the SA80A1 IW turned up. As the entire company went through its conversion in the early 90’s there was a very large explanation that you were not supposed to clean it like the SLR. That certain bits were supposed to be dirty (big smiles). The Plastic bits, were not supposed to be moved for normal daily cleaning.

Now to define Normal Daily Cleaning, that, to us, is/was operator level and so I can comfortably say I didn’t ever take the foregrip off in 10 years of A1 use. I would occasionally have to run it under a hot tap to clear mud and other debris and whilst a certain amount of carbon would build up just behind the gas block, this I would chip away at with the combi tool and move on.

At a couple of points in the 90’s I nipped of to depot to do promotion or other courses and be handed this gash A1 which had been polished to within an inch of its life, the barrel was basically shiny shiny and the screws barely bit because they’d been cranked so often. It rattled like a midgets c ock in a whore and just about worked. I asked a full screw about this and he explained that when the recruits first got their hands on them, the instructors were old-school polish merchants and so we ended up with rifles that looked and were in sh it state.

At some point my company merged with platoon from another battalion. They brought with them a selection of rifles that looked like those I’d seen back at the depot, apparently their battalion never got the “don’t make it shiny” and despite the difference being known, their NCO’s would check weapons prior to going back into the armoury with a completely different set of “standards” to us. The consequence was friction between NCO’s and privates which was, I believe entirely down to the incoming NCO’s not getting the message. Naturally their view was that we the receiving Coy were slack and so it went on.

My guiding rule was, if the combi tool wasn’t made to clean it, and the brush can’t flick it away, then it’s fcking staying there. Occasionally you will rub against a senior rank, I recall a bloody good argument with a CQMS (well I say argument, it was more of a bo ll ocking) where he wanted something cleaned on the IW and it went something like:

I said, “well you don’t do that with a tool” and “if you hadn’t skipped half the conversion lessons you would know that, it removes the parkerisation”
and his view was “then why is your rifle the only one dirty here then?”
and my response was “good point, maybe I just train harder”
and he said “a thousand times around the gym, GO!”

Any way, he learnt, being CQMS, he actually had to get the NIGS as they came through to stop removing the parkerisation.

Never got an apology though..

No idea about the A2 though. I presume its immune to scotch brite?
 
#13
not at all....you can still f*ck up all the 'dull' bits with scotch brite and make them nice and shiny which everyone is told is a big no no.

Unfortunately this doesnt answer the above question, regards removing hand guard!?
 
#15
Mr Happy said:
This has been a pet hate of my for efffing years, so thanks to the OP for the chance to vent some spleen.

Starting off with….

I originally did my job with an SLR. The rule with the SLR was you polished everything gleaming with the exception of the wood, the top cover, the exterior barrel short of the flash eliminator and, if memory serves, the sights...

... yada, yada...

No idea about the A2 though. I presume its immune to scotch brite?
Allegedly, the SLR dismanted into two lovely lumps for cleaning. :wink: Not very good for the sight alignment though. :roll:
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#16
Recce19 said:
Mr Happy said:
This has been a pet hate of my for efffing years, so thanks to the OP for the chance to vent some spleen.

Starting off with….

I originally did my job with an SLR. The rule with the SLR was you polished everything gleaming with the exception of the wood, the top cover, the exterior barrel short of the flash eliminator and, if memory serves, the sights...

... yada, yada...

No idea about the A2 though. I presume its immune to scotch brite?
Allegedly, the SLR dismanted into two lovely lumps for cleaning. :wink: Not very good for the sight alignment though. :roll:
From memory it broke like a shotgun. God, I am so wrong?

Gas plug, spring, top cover, block thing, top cover, etc

 
#17
What's a Hand Guard ..... Mk 4 Lee Enfield in my day except for mid 60's when we were issued the SLR ... Oh Yes .. never use 2x4 on your pull through when cleaning the SLR .. 'Ooops, too late ....

Ciphers ( 22560928)
 
#18
What's a Hand Guard ..... Mk 4 Lee Enfield in my day except for mid 60's when we were issued the SLR ... Oh Yes .. never use 2x4 on your pull through when cleaning the SLR .. 'Ooops, too late ....

Ciphers ( 22560928)
 
#19
Mr Happy said:
Recce19 said:
Mr Happy said:
This has been a pet hate of my for efffing years, so thanks to the OP for the chance to vent some spleen.

Starting off with….

I originally did my job with an SLR. The rule with the SLR was you polished everything gleaming with the exception of the wood, the top cover, the exterior barrel short of the flash eliminator and, if memory serves, the sights...

... yada, yada...

No idea about the A2 though. I presume its immune to scotch brite?
Allegedly, the SLR dismanted into two lovely lumps for cleaning. :wink: Not very good for the sight alignment though. :roll:
From memory it broke like a shotgun. God, I am so wrong?

Gas plug, spring, top cover, block thing, top cover, etc

No,you're right.The hinge pin could be unscrewed to allow the gat to be broken in two.But no way would you remove the but plate or you'd get the return spring & guide in the gob if you were'nt careful.
I was on a course once & the Cpl told me my smg was'nt clean enough.so I stripped the f*cker right down!
When the c*nt yelled something along the line of "Only armourers are allowed to do that!", I replied "Thats alright then cuz I'm an Armourer!" :p
 
#20
I tend to take the hand guard off for - easy enough to do and makes cleaning a little easier. What concerned me was when one of the Corporals had gone into the medics tents (on Herrick) to find some had taken off their SUSATs - congratulations guys, your weapons are no longer zeroed!

This was the same day that we pointed out to someone that the armourer, during a hasty exchange of iron sights for SUSATs, had actually mounted the iron sight the wrong way around on their rifle. He'd had a SUSAT on their so long that he just hadn't twigged when the sight was on the wrong way around.
 

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