Rifkind on Defence (The Times 01/02/10)

#2
bobthedog said:
Rifkind suggesting we sign pacts for defence with the surrender monkeys.

Quite where this would leave us if we had to do another Falklands is anyone's guess!

I hope this is not the first sign of a Tory Defence policy.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article7010326.ece
Well, if we involved the Germans, certainly.. But considering the French are at odds with the septics, it'd make it hard for us to deploy. Mind you, the idea of a combined force across the 3 countries.. Hmm. Interesting thought.

Hes quite right however - we've got the make the choice of if we wish to remain a Global power, and retain our military strength, or drop into the background like Spain and Italy.
 
#3
bobthedog said:
Rifkind suggesting we sign pacts for defence with the surrender monkeys.

Quite where this would leave us if we had to do another Falklands is anyone's guess!

I hope this is not the first sign of a Tory Defence policy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article7010326.ece
Thanks for the link. In fact Liam Fox has already said that he intended to work with France, "which is also bearing a heavy fighting burden" in contrast with certain other countries, to "grasp the NATO nettle". LINK

Personally I suggest that talk of "surrender monkeys" is taking your international defence strategy from Groundskeeper Willie in the Simpsons.
 
#4
No it was a cheap joke, I know and respect the French Armed forces as a very professional and very potent force. I also know how hard they actually fought in 1940 to prevent the overwhelming force of the German Army coming through the Ardennes. However, given that the French government in 1982 were initially opposed to our sending the task force to recover the Falklands, that certainly would be a difficult situation to work through.
 
#5
Why does UK want a big international role ?
We are a tiny island and should not be playing with all the Big boys on the international agenda.
The days of Empire have gone as has the large navy and fairsized but well equiped & trained Army.
john
 
#6
Agreed - we should 'bin' the global role. (The word 'global' having been corrupted by Brown and his constant reference to 'global financial problems' and 'global warming').

We should however, keep as powerful Armed Forces as affordable (at present affordable = none) and keep our Permanent Seat on the Security Council of the United Nationals - if only to annoy the European Soviet Union.

I have not yet developed my strategy for what we would do with our 'powerful Armed Forces', but they would include a third - nuclear powered - super carrier; appropriate numbers of aircraft and escort vessels; doubling of the Trident fleet; raising on a 'county' basis fifteen infantry battalions and a fourth parachute battalion (fully trained); establishment of five Military (Joint Service) Hospitals; the division of the RAF 'twixt Royal Navy and the Army - as a start.
 
#7
Squiggers said:
bobthedog said:
Rifkind suggesting we sign pacts for defence with the surrender monkeys.

Quite where this would leave us if we had to do another Falklands is anyone's guess!

I hope this is not the first sign of a Tory Defence policy.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article7010326.ece
Well, if we involved the Germans, certainly.. But considering the French are at odds with the septics, it'd make it hard for us to deploy.
The french aren't massively keen on the Germans at the moment either.
 
#8
jonwilly said:
Why does UK want a big international role ?
We are a tiny island and should not be playing with all the Big boys on the international agenda.
The days of Empire have gone as has the large navy and fairsized but well equiped & trained Army.
john
yawn.
 
#9
flibbertigibbet said:
Squiggers said:
bobthedog said:
Rifkind suggesting we sign pacts for defence with the surrender monkeys.

Quite where this would leave us if we had to do another Falklands is anyone's guess!

I hope this is not the first sign of a Tory Defence policy.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article7010326.ece
Well, if we involved the Germans, certainly.. But considering the French are at odds with the septics, it'd make it hard for us to deploy.
The french aren't massively keen on the Germans at the moment either.
Oh good, is it time for Round 3?
That should put and end to this EU nonsense :lol:
 
#10
jagman said:
flibbertigibbet said:
Squiggers said:
bobthedog said:
Rifkind suggesting we sign pacts for defence with the surrender monkeys.

Quite where this would leave us if we had to do another Falklands is anyone's guess!

I hope this is not the first sign of a Tory Defence policy.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article7010326.ece
Well, if we involved the Germans, certainly.. But considering the French are at odds with the septics, it'd make it hard for us to deploy.
The french aren't massively keen on the Germans at the moment either.
Oh good, is it time for Round 3?
That should put and end to this EU nonsense :lol:
Well, they have been overdue to give most of Europe a shoeing by some 40 years now, I believe? ;)
 
#11
jonwilly said:
Why does UK want a big international role ?
We are a tiny island and should not be playing with all the Big boys on the international agenda.
The days of Empire have gone as has the large navy and fairsized but well equiped & trained Army.
john
Wait until peak oil.

Defence spending around the globe will skyrocket if no alternative energy source can be found.
 
#12
jonwilly said:
Why does UK want a big international role ?
We are a tiny island and should not be playing with all the Big boys on the international agenda.
The days of Empire have gone as has the large navy and fairsized but well equiped & trained Army.
john
Who are the big boys, pray tell. Militarily USA - yes...... after that it is a bit difficult to say isn't it? The remainder don't deploy. China, India etc - the coming powers

That means we should look at the financial power houses and for that we are still in the top 6, I think. Still a big boy in that respect.......

However, the mindset of "Empire has gone;time to review" is an comment I agree with
 
#13
Majorpain said:
jonwilly said:
Why does UK want a big international role ?
We are a tiny island and should not be playing with all the Big boys on the international agenda.
The days of Empire have gone as has the large navy and fairsized but well equiped & trained Army.
john
Wait until peak oil.

Defence spending around the globe will skyrocket if no alternative energy source can be found.
And then we have the joy of lengthy resource wars.. yahey.
 
#14
Look- if we are going to have a good war in Europe we need to think seriously about the consequences. What really matters is which corner of Europe we will occupy at the end of it. We have done over half a century on god-forsaken plains of North Germany. They are cold, wet and dull with unfriendly humourless locals and shite food.

The only answer is next time, we side with the Germans (Belgians, dutch and others) against the French. At the end of it we claim the nice bits of France - Med Coast, ski resorts, wine growing areas etc. We won't be around to support the French Resistance, so they will revert to collaberation mode. Germans will be happy with Alsace/Lorraine area. Spanish will have all of Pyrennes. Dutch and Belgians can have bits of the North Coast thereby securing our Channel Ports.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#15
Herrumph said:
Look- if we are going to have a good war in Europe we need to think seriously about the consequences. What really matters is which corner of Europe we will occupy at the end of it. We have done over half a century on god-forsaken plains of North Germany. They are cold, wet and dull with unfriendly humourless locals and shite food.

The only answer is next time, we side with the Germans (Belgians, dutch and others) against the French. At the end of it we claim the nice bits of France - Med Coast, ski resorts, wine growing areas etc. We won't be around to support the French Resistance, so they will revert to collaberation mode. Germans will be happy with Alsace/Lorraine area. Spanish will have all of Pyrennes. Dutch and Belgians can have bits of the North Coast thereby securing our Channel Ports.
There is absolutely nothing there to disagree with! :D
 
#16
Not sure who would get the Italians this time round.

Might be the basis of a quick feasibility study:

"Oi Burlosconi - who's side are you on?

"Yours"

"Shite, let's find another plan"
 
#17
ugly said:
Herrumph said:
Look- if we are going to have a good war in Europe we need to think seriously about the consequences. What really matters is which corner of Europe we will occupy at the end of it. We have done over half a century on god-forsaken plains of North Germany. They are cold, wet and dull with unfriendly humourless locals and shite food.

The only answer is next time, we side with the Germans (Belgians, dutch and others) against the French. At the end of it we claim the nice bits of France - Med Coast, ski resorts, wine growing areas etc. We won't be around to support the French Resistance, so they will revert to collaberation mode. Germans will be happy with Alsace/Lorraine area. Spanish will have all of Pyrennes. Dutch and Belgians can have bits of the North Coast thereby securing our Channel Ports.
There is absolutely nothing there to disagree with! :D
Can I second that.
 
#18
Herrumph said:
Look- if we are going to have a good war in Europe we need to think seriously about the consequences. What really matters is which corner of Europe we will occupy at the end of it. We have done over half a century on god-forsaken plains of North Germany. They are cold, wet and dull with unfriendly humourless locals and shite food.

The only answer is next time, we side with the Germans (Belgians, dutch and others) against the French. At the end of it we claim the nice bits of France - Med Coast, ski resorts, wine growing areas etc. We won't be around to support the French Resistance, so they will revert to collaberation mode. Germans will be happy with Alsace/Lorraine area. Spanish will have all of Pyrennes. Dutch and Belgians can have bits of the North Coast thereby securing our Channel Ports.
The Belgians couldn't secure a pair of trousers with a belt. What is the difference between a Belgian and toast?

You can make soldiers from toast :twisted:
 
#19
You ask where an alliance with the french would leave us in the event of another Falklands War - presumably you mean a second FW?

It would leave us with access to some useful power projection capability - their aircraft carriers and surface fleet are bigger than ours. Moreover they have these:



Mistral Class – Amphibious Assault, Command and Force Projection Ship

The Mistral class (that's Tonnerre above by the way) are highly capable C2 and assault vessels. They can carry about a battle-group of troops and support them for 45 days between RAS/replenishments.

They are not just pretty either, they have been thoroughly thought through for multiple/modular roles. Unlike poor old Ocean, which is really at the whim of the next bright idea!
 
#20
The get together has already started...exercise « Gallic Marauder » which is involving French Navy Rafale and Super Etendard doing Close Air Support missions in support of 3 Cdo Bgde JTACs is currently underway near Plymouth.

 

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