Ridiculous fallout from the Carillion collapse

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
Nationalising it would add massive, structural inefficiency (competition, when its done properly, is a very effective mechanism), and most likely would result in the best staff moving out of the new ‘national building service’ into the private sector (or are you proposing to nationalise that too, comrade?), in order to get paid more. Also, are you going to nationalise the whole supply chain?
And this ‘done properly’ that you speak of, does this include faster, more efficient and cheaper for the consumer.
A bargain for the one who needs the work done?
It seems not, there’s dividends and bonuses to be paid first.

Let’s try something simple before people start freaking out and going all ‘did you see what those socialists did to my grandmothers shared line’?

Why not if it’s a public building, school, hospital, large car park. It gets built by public works. If it’s a private outfit, let them build it privately.
Keep everyone happy. And the supply chain gets paid.
If you don’t agree with the policy of nationalisation, don’t work for them, don’t tender. And don’t moan when the people who owe you six months money can’t pay you, just write it off to experience and the market weeding itself out.
Think yourself lucky that you had the foresight to save money for a rainy capitalist day such as this.
 
And when has competition been done properly? Name 3 public contracts?
Are you serious? Government spends about 240bn p.a. on bought in goods and services. Of these, the majority are above the 106k OJEU threshold so subject to competition. The VAST majority of these go through robust competitive processes, within fully functioning markets. IT outsourcing (now far more diverse than it was 10 years ago); business process outsourcing (e.g. recruitment, finance, HR) (again thriving market supporting innovation), and services (food preparation, H&S). The facilities and construction market that Carillion etc are in has some structural problems - and both the supply side (through consolidation and an appetite for leverage) and the demand side (through a failure to specify properly, oversee effectively and demand to drive down price) are accountable.

I have absolutely ZERO confidence in the ability of government to bring in-house the majority of this work. The public sector, without a radical and unprecedented change in remuneration, skills development, innovation and delivery expertise cannot manage this work. They can't recruit or retain the people who would do it. They can't keep pace with technology change or customer expectations. They simply would fail.

Do you seriously believe that in every instance this would be better done in-house? Do you think that Amazon does its own catering? That GE builds and maintains its own ERP software? There is a reason for that.

You asked me to name 3:

1. IBM's delivery of visa biometrics. System running for over 10 years. Does what it says on the tin. Value - circa 300m. You have probably never heard of it, because it works.
2. National Employment Savings Trust - Pensions administration outsource to TCS.. Supported NEST to enrol 6m people through auto enrolment who otherwise wouldn't have pensions. Value - circa 1bn.
3. Pandemic flu response - BT and partners development of contact system and supply chain for 2009 response to Pandemic flu. Designed, developed and implemented in under 12 months. Value - circa 500m.

What do these all have in common? They were all vigorously contested within functioning markets, properly delivered by reputable firms, and effectively overseen by a good customer. They would have failed if delivered by the client.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
BT tendered for and delivered something that works as expected. No stings in the tail, no weird costs.
That’s the bird flu that never happened, just as well then
Dodged that one.
 
Can I just check, this is the NAAFI Bar right?
 
BT tendered for and delivered something that works as expected. No stings in the tail, no weird costs.
That’s the bird flu that never happened, just as well then
Dodged that one.
To fairly widely distributed relief.

Here's another one (sorry @Kirkz) BT designed, built and are (still) running the Customs Handling of Import and Export Freight (CHIEF) service. Sits at the border, makes sure that HMT collect their slice of duty on everything coming into our out of the country (about 14bn worth of VAT, duty and excise). BT and HMRC have been quietly working away on it since 1990, to mutual satisfaction and considerable public benefit.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
To fairly widely distributed relief.

Here's another one (sorry @Kirkz) BT designed, built and are (still) running the Customs Handling of Import and Export Freight (CHIEF) service. Sits at the border, makes sure that HMT collect their slice of duty on everything coming into our out of the country (about 14bn worth of VAT, duty and excise). BT and HMRC have been quietly working away on it since 1990, to mutual satisfaction and considerable public benefit.
Not disputing it I hear it so rarely. I think yours is the first time I’ve ever seen ‘BT took on an IT and everyone was happy’
Naafi, poo.
 
The various Highway related ones I've had (thankfully only) peripheral dealings with have all been "fun". I'm aware of one where the "lucky" winner has to cut their prices by a small percentage (1 or 2%?) each and every year for the 5 year duration. Naturally they put in the traditional stupid price to win it in the first place and are now struggling. But that's civil engineering for you, where the race to the bottom has been in place for a few years now.

NAAFI - soapy titwank.
 
The various Highway related ones I've had (thankfully only) peripheral dealings with have all been "fun". I'm aware of one where the "lucky" winner has to cut their prices by a small percentage (1 or 2%?) each and every year for the 5 year duration. Naturally they put in the traditional stupid price to win it in the first place and are now struggling. But that's civil engineering for you, where the race to the bottom has been in place for a few years now.

NAAFI - soapy titwank.
Cutting cost (i.e. reduce annual cost to the client) YoY isn’t unusual across lots of outsource deals. The intention is to encourage the supplier to innovate - to give the client the benefit of that innovation over the life of the deal. That can and does work in some instances (IT especially), and is best linked to a gain share mechanism that means both parties benefit. It necessarily assumes that there are current or future inefficiencies to be found within the scope the supplier manages. Very often this assumption is false - and especially so in 2nd, 3rd + generations of outsourcing deals, where a lot of the efficiency got taken 1st time around.

Cutting price (ie committing to reducing margin) year on year without any justification is mental.

NAAFI: grannies p1ssflaps, sh1tbag!
 
Evidently former Chairman Philip Green is taking the blame personally.

Ex-boss takes blame for Carillion failure

I wonder if he will chip in some of his multi-million pounds of bonuses that he trousered to help all the poor bl**dy contractors who have been shafted?

No? Thought not.
 
Carillion were building the A325 relief road around Bordon.

It wasn’t really needed as traffic relief but:
  • most people in E.Hampshire are scared of driving through Bordon in case they have to stop and the natives eat them.
  • The council didn’t want people driving through Bordon to look at the nice new houses being built on the various REME barracks.
All the plant vanished within two hours of the declaration.

Not been back since then.

Fucknose what’s going to happen to it.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
All the plant vanished within two hours of the declaration.
That would be subbies knowing they would get stiffed
Not been back since then.
Neither will the subbies without a contract
Fucknose what’s going to happen to it.
I suggest that if it is important you could ask your MP or email Highways England(assuming Borden is classed as England)
 
Well, it is vaguely located in England but seems to occupy a different existential plane.

A bit like a shit version of Narnia.
 

TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
Will you swap for a JCB 8026?

I have three in the back garden. Require hot wiring.
Sound. I have a couple of Hyundai DHY12500SE gennies lying around the place. Missing control panels. We could box them up and ship to an associate of mine in Poland. 60-40 split my way.
 
Sound. I have a couple of Hyundai DHY12500SE gennies lying around the place. Missing control panels. We could box them up and ship to an associate of mine in Poland. 60-40 split my way.
Deal.

Send a text to Josif and we will sort it out.

50/50 ya scalping caaant.
 

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