Ridgebacks Stranded in Dubai

#1
We don't have enough planes.

What a load of BOLLOX.

I believe that they are there, but due to only being able to fly 2 at a time on C17s that might be the reason for the hold up. Oh hang on a little....guess what?

We only have 6 C17s 4 of which are available at anyone time to support everything.

As for UK Eyes only, they normally fly with an escort when the RAF use the AN 124s so that is crap.

More likely we don't have the money to charter?

Any other answers on a post card please!
 
#4
Markintime said:
You couldn't make it up really. The British have been doing similar things throughout history, one only has to look at Isandlwana in 1879 where the QM's were reluctant to issue ammo!
This is nothing like that. Totally different in fact. Bless you for trying.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
The draw-down from Iraq has got in the way of kit for Afghan.

Hmmmmm, wonder which is more important right now . . . .
 
#6
There is more important and more important - I'm not qualified to say what the impact of the troops on the ground in Iraq without an MOU would be on an international level - but it must be pretty big to make a call like this. I doubt any of us are qualified to make a reasonable comment on that aspect.
 
#7
Markintime said:
You couldn't make it up really. The British have been doing similar things throughout history, one only has to look at Isandlwana in 1879 where the QM's were reluctant to issue ammo!

Histerical myth.
 
#8
A very poor journalistic summing up of a very complex issue. Getting new kit into theatre takes time and effort - its not just a case of saying "whack it on the plane and crack on". The Defence Log Ops Centre does an incredible job of having to co-ordinate all the vehicle moves, store issues and so on to theatre, and ensure that the right kit gets there at the right time.

Am away from the office this week, so can't check, but would be willing to place an extremely large bet that there is more to this than meets the eye. Initial questions I have are, when was deployment scheduled for? When were spares and support due to be in theatre? Is the current brigade trained on Ridgback, or is the next Brigade due to pick it up and use it? What higher priority kit going into theatre is taking the place of Ridgback on the air bridge?

Also the SUKEO issue - call me old fashioned, but I'd rather not leave our vehicles and their armour open to examination by all and sundry thank you. UK Armour is "TS Burn Before Reading" for a reason!
 
#9
Vimeiro said:
Markintime said:
You couldn't make it up really. The British have been doing similar things throughout history, one only has to look at Isandlwana in 1879 where the QM's were reluctant to issue ammo!

Histerical myth.
Yep. The Firing Line was too widely spaced so the Zulus could get behind the troops who should have ben shoulder to shoulder but were actually about 10 yards from each other.
 
#10
rickshaw-major said:
Vimeiro said:
Markintime said:
You couldn't make it up really. The British have been doing similar things throughout history, one only has to look at Isandlwana in 1879 where the QM's were reluctant to issue ammo!

Histerical myth.
Yep. The Firing Line was too widely spaced so the Zulus could get behind the troops who should have ben shoulder to shoulder but were actually about 10 yards from each other.
...and they didn't laager the wagons, as the Boers would have done.
 
#11
Vimeiro said:
rickshaw-major said:
Vimeiro said:
Markintime said:
You couldn't make it up really. The British have been doing similar things throughout history, one only has to look at Isandlwana in 1879 where the QM's were reluctant to issue ammo!

Histerical myth.
Yep. The Firing Line was too widely spaced so the Zulus could get behind the troops who should have ben shoulder to shoulder but were actually about 10 yards from each other.
...and they didn't laager the wagons, as the Boers would have done.
They had far too large a perimeter to defend and had been taken by surprise. There is however evidence that much of the ammo was unissued and in every subsequent aggressive engagement with the Zulus the ammo boxes were unscrewed before engagement not after.
 
#12
Markintime said:
Vimeiro said:
rickshaw-major said:
Vimeiro said:
Markintime said:
You couldn't make it up really. The British have been doing similar things throughout history, one only has to look at Isandlwana in 1879 where the QM's were reluctant to issue ammo!

Histerical myth.
Yep. The Firing Line was too widely spaced so the Zulus could get behind the troops who should have ben shoulder to shoulder but were actually about 10 yards from each other.
...and they didn't laager the wagons, as the Boers would have done.
They had far too large a perimeter to defend and had been taken by surprise. There is however evidence that much of the ammo was unissued and in every subsequent aggressive engagement with the Zulus the ammo boxes were unscrewed before engagement not after.
I thought the ammo box issue had been dis-proven?
Didn't some historian show that the boxes could easily be opened in moments by bashing them in a particular way with a rifle butt?
 
#13
So according to the last sentence in the article, they will be in Afghanistan by Nov......just like they were meant to be there!!!!

As Jim30 said, there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. When SV was pushed into Theatre i know it easily to put a complex veh like that in, and people were screaming out for certain variants, only for them to get there and have no spares/equipment support in place. Another big thing, will be TRAINED Drivers.
 
#14
jim30 said:
A very poor journalistic summing up of a very complex issue. Getting new kit into theatre takes time and effort - its not just a case of saying "whack it on the plane and crack on". The Defence Log Ops Centre does an incredible job of having to co-ordinate all the vehicle moves, store issues and so on to theatre, and ensure that the right kit gets there at the right time.

Am away from the office this week, so can't check, but would be willing to place an extremely large bet that there is more to this than meets the eye. Initial questions I have are, when was deployment scheduled for? When were spares and support due to be in theatre? Is the current brigade trained on Ridgback, or is the next Brigade due to pick it up and use it? What higher priority kit going into theatre is taking the place of Ridgback on the air bridge?

Also the SUKEO issue - call me old fashioned, but I'd rather not leave our vehicles and their armour open to examination by all and sundry thank you. UK Armour is "TS Burn Before Reading" for a reason!
I haven't a clue, however this post reeks of common sense. Thanks
 
#15
Perhaps releasing some of the 186 BILLION pounds estimated to be spent on the DSS this year into the defence budget would allow a full squadron of 16 C-17A Globemaster 111 airplanes to be in service.

Still,what's the death of a few extra servicemen to Cyclops,when he can keep the chavs and immigrants in wide-screen TVs and booze,and hope they vote for him next year,assuming Mandleson allows the election to take place?.
 
#16
rickshaw-major said:
Vimeiro said:
Markintime said:
You couldn't make it up really. The British have been doing similar things throughout history, one only has to look at Isandlwana in 1879 where the QM's were reluctant to issue ammo!

Histerical myth.
Yep. The Firing Line was too widely spaced so the Zulus could get behind the troops who should have ben shoulder to shoulder but were actually about 10 yards from each other.
Saw this in detail on a Documentary on Sky, exactly as R_M says... once again Hollywood misinterprets the 'actual' historical event...

Glad they got it right in Zulu though 8)
 
#17
Gundulph said:
rickshaw-major said:
Vimeiro said:
Markintime said:
You couldn't make it up really. The British have been doing similar things throughout history, one only has to look at Isandlwana in 1879 where the QM's were reluctant to issue ammo!

Histerical myth.
Yep. The Firing Line was too widely spaced so the Zulus could get behind the troops who should have ben shoulder to shoulder but were actually about 10 yards from each other.
Saw this in detail on a Documentary on Sky, exactly as R_M says... once again Hollywood misinterprets the 'actual' historical event...

Glad they got it right in Zulu though 8)

...don't get me started on the inaccuracies of that film......
 
#18
Vimeiro said:
Gundulph said:
rickshaw-major said:
Vimeiro said:
Markintime said:
You couldn't make it up really. The British have been doing similar things throughout history, one only has to look at Isandlwana in 1879 where the QM's were reluctant to issue ammo!

Histerical myth.
Yep. The Firing Line was too widely spaced so the Zulus could get behind the troops who should have ben shoulder to shoulder but were actually about 10 yards from each other.
Saw this in detail on a Documentary on Sky, exactly as R_M says... once again Hollywood misinterprets the 'actual' historical event...

Glad they got it right in Zulu though 8)

...don't get me started on the inaccuracies of that film......
Hmm - a load of SERCO (I know, I know :( ) and BAE people in the Key Bridge Marriot in Washington on 4th July. The hosted Nations that year (1999) were Romania and South Africa.

Enter the South Africans in full Zulu Dress!

Cue the singing from the Drunks Bar a rowdy chorus of Men of Harlech followed by drinky-poohs all round :twisted:
 
#19
jagman said:
Markintime said:
Vimeiro said:
rickshaw-major said:
Vimeiro said:
Markintime said:
You couldn't make it up really. The British have been doing similar things throughout history, one only has to look at Isandlwana in 1879 where the QM's were reluctant to issue ammo!

Histerical myth.
Yep. The Firing Line was too widely spaced so the Zulus could get behind the troops who should have ben shoulder to shoulder but were actually about 10 yards from each other.
...and they didn't laager the wagons, as the Boers would have done.
They had far too large a perimeter to defend and had been taken by surprise. There is however evidence that much of the ammo was unissued and in every subsequent aggressive engagement with the Zulus the ammo boxes were unscrewed before engagement not after.
I thought the ammo box issue had been dis-proven?
Didn't some historian show that the boxes could easily be opened in moments by bashing them in a particular way with a rifle butt?
The 24th Regiment of Foot (IIRC they were from Warwickshire not Wales), were a bloodied Regiment, and quite efficient. The boxes didn't ahve to be unscrewed, due their design.

By turning the box on its side and bring the butt of a rifle down on to the side of the lid, the lid would split. Also bending and ejecting the brass screw that secured the sliding lid. Bent screws were found all over the battle field at both ZULU locations. Beneath this was a layer of lead foil to keep the rounds nice and useable.

All the ammo in the world is useless though, when your rifle is overheating due to your rate of fire, and the rounds are jamming in your breach... requiring hte use of a special tool (issued to all men) to remove the spent case, but taking time that you do not have because a mass of 6ft, 250lb drug crazed Zulu with a hefty looking spear is coming at you!!!!

This was proven by several points... one, spent cases, bent screws and remains of the ammo boxes showing that a. ammo was getting to the shooters, there was enough of it and c. that the firing lines were far too spread out.

At Rourke's Drift, they had a defensive position built on a small habitation, and survived by the old "Micheal Caine" Front Rank fire, rear rank fire drills. :D
 
#20
chocolate_frog said:
All the ammo in the world is useless though, when your rifle is overheating due to your rate of fire, and the rounds are jamming in your breach... requiring hte use of a special tool (issued to all men) to remove the spent case ......
/quote]

And complicated by the fact that the Cartridges usd in the Zulu wars were constrcted of rolled brass foil which could bend, unfold etc.
 

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