Rich man gets the point about tax

#2
Good for him. But he made his money essentially as a very high stakes gambler. Fine except wouldn't it be "nice" if the invested hedge fund money had been put in UK companies that make things and employ people. That way his tax pounds would benefit the country twice instead of going towards white shell suits and babies with names beginning with the letter K.
Discuss.
 
#3
The top 1% of earners in the UK pay more than one quarter of income tax in a given year; the lower 50% pay 1/10 of income taxes.

And numb-nuts Milliband thinks it's a good idea to tax entrepreneurs and business people more.

Yup, sound like a battle-proven winner to me..............
 
#4
And numb-nuts Milliband thinks it's a good idea to tax entrepreneurs and business people more.

Yup, sound like a battle-proven winner to me..............
It doesn't matter if it makes any sense - it will still appeal to the idle and envious. It will get votes.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
The top 1% of earners in the UK pay more than one quarter of income tax in a given year; the lower 50% pay 1/10 of income taxes.

And numb-nuts Milliband thinks it's a good idea to tax entrepreneurs and business people more.

Yup, sound like a battle-proven winner to me..............
which sounds fine until you work out how much the top 1% are evading in tax added to the even worse schemes their companies are up to.

until the rules are super simplified then it will never get sorted, just like until we stop the basel bank rules from being so deliberately complicated we will allways have a banking problem.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
I'm guessing that the UK follows the US pattern in the 90's the top 1% owned 30% or so of the countries wealth, now its around 70-80% IIRC
 
#7
So you want what, the top 1% to pay for everything?
 
#8
There's a school of thought developing that tax is virtuous and that we should all willingly pay it, we should not. Tax should be extracted with maximum opposition, government must not get the idea that its spending is sacrosanct and thus it's citizenry can be robbed. Government spends to much on things it should not do, it needs to reign in its ambitions and stop robbing people.
 
#9
There's a school of thought developing that tax is virtuous and that we should all willingly pay it, we should not. Tax should be extracted with maximum opposition, government must not get the idea that its spending is sacrosanct and thus it's citizenry can be robbed. Government spends to much on things it should not do, it needs to reign in its ambitions and stop robbing people.
I think i love you! Will you marry me?
 

udipur

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
Good for him. But he made his money essentially as a very high stakes gambler. Fine except wouldn't it be "nice" if the invested hedge fund money had been put in UK companies that make things and employ people. That way his tax pounds would benefit the country twice instead of going towards white shell suits and babies with names beginning with the letter K.
Discuss.
And how much of your hard earned moulah is utilised this way?
 
#11
#12
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.
So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20."

Drinks for the ten now cost just £80
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay! And so...

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the £20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
 
#13
**** off with this ayn rand galt bullshit crap.

Society is expensive and complex rich succesful economys have infrastructure educated and healthy workforces.
Law enforcement security etc etc etc.
If you,ve got 34 million you could hire slackwater and a personal generator build a well etc etc.
But your still be living in a 3rd world shithole.
 
#14
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.
So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20."

Drinks for the ten now cost just £80
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay! And so...

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the £20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!


very clever. How about not going out for a drink if you cant afford it ? or make home brew or that elderberry shit.

better still always remember that this social spectrum never exists in reality. The middle and lower working people get fucked off having to constantly stand drinks for the workshy, and also peeved by being looked down upon by the rich guy. Birds of a feather flock together.

Also remember people can be very rich , and not actually contribute anything useful by the origination of their wealth..

by the way, how can you get a dollar out of a £20 note ? is the money exchange rate thing part of the "lesson " ?
 
#15
Politicians can fulminate all they want about taxing the "rich", the reality of it is that there aren't very many of them. As a proportion of the tax base they are minuscule. Excessive taxes on the "rich" will guarantee less revenue, every percentage point of tax will result in someone saying "stuff this I'm off". The remaining "rich" will then have to make up the difference. High taxes result in less revenue, it's been proven time after time.
 
#16
Politicians can fulminate all they want about taxing the "rich", the reality of it is that there aren't very many of them. As a proportion of the tax base they are minuscule. Excessive taxes on the "rich" will guarantee less revenue, every percentage point of tax will result in someone saying "stuff this I'm off". The remaining "rich" will then have to make up the difference. High taxes result in less revenue, it's been proven time after time.
If you run an engineering company in the west midlands, then the "stuff you Im off" does not work, your "real world" business is firmly linked in to an exisiting transport network, suppliers and customers logistics, plus the facility you run is chock full of heavy machine plant.. staffed by skilled and difficult to replace men.

If you run a business trading in information (financial services) then , yes, you can off sticks to wherever..

that is why the nation is in the shit from that perspective. The other half is to do with the benefits culture etc...
 
#17
You're right, this boss of an engineering company will be a higher rate taxpayer and with his accountants help will pay the minimum of tax. He however is not the target of venal politicians, they want to tax the very high earners, those who can go somewhere else. The policy is entirely punitive, "you earn too much and I will take it from you".
 
#18
And how much of your hard earned moulah is utilised this way?
Depends which way you mean. I think to much of my moulah is utilized keeping people out of work, I.e. on the dole when for a similar investment they could be doing something worthwhile and constructive.
If you mean how much am I investing in getting people making things well you have me banged to rights. At the moment the only folk I am employing are knocking my house about or suppliers to our business.

Edited to add; Just added up total contractors we have had working for us this month excluding working on the house. It comes to seven. it would have been nine but two did not turn up.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
So you want what, the top 1% to pay for everything?
the top 1% get where they are on top of the little man so shoudl pay their fair dues. classic is the US ideal - romney is a self made multi millionaire - no he inherited, took over asset stripped and fiddled his way up there on the backs of the ordinary guys who just wanted to take home enough to run their home and feed their families. I've been in companies bought by venture capital purely to make a profit and funded by leveraged debt and what they get up to is pathetic. we had different cleaning firms every week because they didn't pay up. when they finally sold and the old management disappeared to the caribbean the new owners found half a million in unpaid services tucked away.



if everyone paid a flat rate on earnings and everything else then it would be simpler, when the earning ration between workers and the company management was 8x if didnt look so bad - now its 50x it does seem a little unfair when workers get below inflation payrises and the bosses get 8%, plus bonus and increased allowances.
 

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