RFA Argus joins bicentennial celebrations in USA

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
A pity the MoD doesn't have the balls (or perhaps the knowledge) to point out that we WON the war of 1812 after the RN bankrupted the uppity US and the US had to come crawling for a peace treaty.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
A pity the MoD doesn't have the balls (or perhaps the knowledge) to point out that we WON the war of 1812 after the RN bankrupted the uppity US and the US had to come crawling for a peace treaty.
That would be a bit laughable considering we've sent a civilian-manned training ship to a party hosted by the world's largest navy in the port where they dock of their aircraft carriers. For the first time in 100 years we've had a major event to mark a key anniversary of our sovereign without having a Fleet review and now we can't even muster a warship to turn up and show the Yanks that we're still world players.
 
#4
That would be a bit laughable considering we've sent a civilian-manned training ship to a party hosted by the world's largest navy in the port where they dock of their aircraft carriers. For the first time in 100 years we've had a major event to mark a key anniversary of our sovereign without having a Fleet review and now we can't even muster a warship to turn up and show the Yanks that we're still world players.
It's not laughable at all. You've failed to grasp the bigger picture !

Civilian manned perhaps, but none the less, the RFA remain completely integrated into the Royal Navy. In addition there is a large proportion of the ships company are matelots. In addition the majority of RFA are made up of ex-Army, and ex- Royal Navy personal.

The RFA have also have a disguised history of being involved in many Operations and have put themselves in harms way. Arctic Convoys of World War I!. RFA Fort Austin was the first ship to leave for the Falklands Conflict, other RFAs were used as platforms for the capture of South Georgia and RFA Sir Galahad was attacked by three A-4 Skyhawks and is now a War Grave. Many men have died under the service of the blue ensign.

RFA Argus isn't a training ship it's a Primary Casualty Receiving Facility (PCRF). She has a fully equipped 100-bed hospital onboard offering full services. This includes a four-bay Operating Theatre coupled with a 10-bed Critical Care Unit, a 20-bed High Dependency Unit and a CT scanner. She also has aviation facilities and she is also another veteran of the Falklands Conflict
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
I know all about the RFA and my comments were not intended to be derogatory about them. My understanding is that of the operation 13 RFA ships 11 are deployed. But Argus is nevertheless a support ship commanded and operated by civilians - it is a reflection of the sorry state of the fleet that she is representing the RN and the realities of the situation should be constantly pointed out in the face of the positive spin that MOD's PR people are trying to make. Argus is there because we don't have any proper warships available.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
We should, of course, be sending a re-enactment party to sack and burn the White House all over again.
 
#7
As long as the Yanks don't get to the tea stores...
 
#8
Doesn't matter what we send, this picture says it all… :-(



ETA: please disregard the aircraft on HMS Illustrious, now a not fitted for or with aircraft aircraft carrier.
 
#10
It's not laughable at all. You've failed to grasp the bigger picture !

Civilian manned perhaps, but none the less, the RFA remain completely integrated into the Royal Navy. In addition there is a large proportion of the ships company are matelots. In addition the majority of RFA are made up of ex-Army, and ex- Royal Navy personal.

The RFA have also have a disguised history of being involved in many Operations and have put themselves in harms way. Arctic Convoys of World War I!. RFA Fort Austin was the first ship to leave for the Falklands Conflict, other RFAs were used as platforms for the capture of South Georgia and RFA Sir Galahad was attacked by three A-4 Skyhawks and is now a War Grave. Many men have died under the service of the blue ensign.

RFA Argus isn't a training ship it's a Primary Casualty Receiving Facility (PCRF). She has a fully equipped 100-bed hospital onboard offering full services. This includes a four-bay Operating Theatre coupled with a 10-bed Critical Care Unit, a 20-bed High Dependency Unit and a CT scanner. She also has aviation facilities and she is also another veteran of the Falklands Conflict


Seriously mate, the fact that half the RFA's predate the Falklands War is not something you'd want to shout from the rooftops.
 
#11
Bouillabaisse said:
...But Argus is nevertheless a support ship commanded and operated by civilians ...
Commanded maybe, operated? Don't make me laugh- the sloping shoulders of the civies on there was a joke- got to the point where the RN element of the ship were responsible for the mainitaence, cleaning (actully twice daily mopping of the flats), ditching gash, storing ship, helmsmanship, running the flying serials, running the ships defence serials and anything else they didn't like doing, complained to their unions about and passed on to us lot.

Hope the WAFU's took their number 1's this time, last time Argus went anywhere we had to wear 3's as no one was prepaired and look like a right bunch of cnuts compaired with other navies around the world that were present!
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
Commanded maybe, operated? Don't make me laugh- the sloping shoulders of the civies on there was a joke- got to the point where the RN element of the ship were responsible for the mainitaence, cleaning (actully twice daily mopping of the flats), ditching gash, storing ship, helmsmanship, running the flying serials, running the ships defence serials and anything else they didn't like doing, complained to their unions about and passed on to us lot.

Hope the WAFU's took their number 1's this time, last time Argus went anywhere we had to wear 3's as no one was prepaired and look like a right bunch of cnuts compaired with other navies around the world that were present!
Ravers, god rest his soul, used to say that the arse end of the Fort Vic class was gleaming whilst the pointy it was gash. Reason - the Rn lived and worked aft. Having said that, I've worked with a lot of RFA officers and they're a good professional bunch.
 
C

cloudbuster

Guest
#14
Ravers, god rest his soul, used to say that the arse end of the Fort Vic class was gleaming whilst the pointy it was gash. Reason - the Rn lived and worked aft. Having said that, I've worked with a lot of RAF oficers and they're a good professional bunch.
I think an edit is in order, don't you?
 
#16
Bouillabaisse said:
Ravers, god rest his soul, used to say that the arse end of the Fort Vic class was gleaming whilst the pointy it was gash. Reason - the Rn lived and worked aft
It's true, it was- every Wednesday we'd be digging out scrubbing, mopping and polishing the flats while the RFA's did FA, then on Thursday for Captain's rounds, we'd get picked up for a tiny speck of dust while the Choff turned a blind eye to dust bunnies in the wire runs, empty goffa cans sculling about and gash cans filled to the brim with tab ends (Don't get me wrong though, if she was still floating I'd go back to the George- vic's sister ship- any day)!
 
#17
Bouillabaisse said:
Ravers, god rest his soul, used to say that the arse end of the Fort Vic class was gleaming whilst the pointy it was gash. Reason - the Rn lived and worked aft
It's true, it was- every Wednesday we'd be digging out scrubbing, mopping and polishing the flats while the RFA's did FA, then on Thursday for Captain's rounds, we'd get picked up for a tiny speck of dust while the Choff turned a blind eye to dust bunnies in the wire runs, empty goffa cans sculling about and gash cans filled to the brim with tab ends (Don't get me wrong though, if she was still floating I'd go back to the George- vic's sister ship- any day)!
Send correct key setting over.
 
#18
Commanded maybe, operated? Don't make me laugh- the sloping shoulders of the civies on there was a joke- got to the point where the RN element of the ship were responsible for the mainitaence, cleaning (actully twice daily mopping of the flats), ditching gash, storing ship, helmsmanship, running the flying serials, running the ships defence serials and anything else they didn't like doing, complained to their unions about and passed on to us lot.
The smell of bullshit is strong with this one young Jack Dusty. I recall in another post you left Argus off of a list of RFAs. Perhaps you don't recall your time on board because you were asleep and dreaming. Where to start?

Responsible for maintenance? Main engines, generators, AC, refrigeration, pumps, shafting, heavy L, aircraft lift, watertight door hydraulics, steering gear, sewage treatment? Did the naval party take charge of the MCR too?

Ran the flying serials? Well the RFA Air Branch was disestablished in 1702. And I'm sure Ops, the OOW and CO had a say in what was taking off and landing and when.

Scrubbing flats? A pro-rata share of them I would have thought, not all.

Helmsmanship (sic). Running it or one interested matelot taking a turn? Obeying the orders of the OOW or just steering his or her own course?

Defence serials? PDO, Ops, CO not get in on that act? Or are you telling us you just loaded up and started letting off rounds?

That said, I don't doubt the existence of bolshy ratings in the RFA and seniors and officers who don't grip them enough.

Argus is doing the 1812 thingy because she's over there anyway. And the USN 'get' the RFA and wish that their MSC had the same utility. I don't expect that they'll be offended by a naval auxiliary representing the RN. They have beer.

Hope the WAFU's took their number 1's this time, last time Argus went anywhere we had to wear 3's as no one was prepaired and look like a right bunch of cnuts compaired with other navies around the world that were present!
Whose fault was that?
 
#19
The smell of bullshit is strong with this one young Jack Dusty. I recall in another post you left Argus off of a list of RFAs. Perhaps you don't recall your time on board because you were asleep and dreaming. Where to start?

Responsible for maintenance? Main engines, generators, AC, refrigeration, pumps, shafting, heavy L, aircraft lift, watertight door hydraulics, steering gear, sewage treatment? Did the naval party take charge of the MCR too?

Ran the flying serials? Well the RFA Air Branch was disestablished in 1702. And I'm sure Ops, the OOW and CO had a say in what was taking off and landing and when.

Scrubbing flats? A pro-rata share of them I would have thought, not all.

Helmsmanship (sic). Running it or one interested matelot taking a turn? Obeying the orders of the OOW or just steering his or her own course?

Defence serials? PDO, Ops, CO not get in on that act? Or are you telling us you just loaded up and started letting off rounds?

That said, I don't doubt the existence of bolshy ratings in the RFA and seniors and officers who don't grip them enough.

Argus is doing the 1812 thingy because she's over there anyway. And the USN 'get' the RFA and wish that their MSC had the same utility. I don't expect that they'll be offended by a naval auxiliary representing the RN. They have beer.



Whose fault was that?
If you read further down that forum you will notice that I had corrected myself and even mentioned that how could I have forgotten seeing as I had served on her.

Of course the CO had final say, it was his ship after all but as for ops room- that was manned by matelots (Warfare branch AWT's) from MASF along with ET(WE)'s with the weapons, the bridge for specials always had a SA and Dabber or WE and Dabber for helmsman/bow thruster/engine controls (still has nice huge leavers for full ahead both engines). Hanger hydraulics were maintained by the RFA true, but all operated by us MASF ratings again. Flight deck was run by the AVSO (Aviation Supervising /Senior Officer) a Lt RN, yes the bridge gave us a green when we were in shoals and took it away when changing course. We cleaned the flats as when we weren't flying there was a surplus of manpower doing nothing but on RFA we're all one department (the PRN) so no matter what branch you were you still came under the SMR or Hospital Officer as manpower coordinators.

As for the WAFUs not having the right rig? I'm sure on receiving your first sea draft you're meant to be informed to withdraw tropical kit from stores no matter what your future ships programme is.


Sent from my iPhone using The Force
 
#20
Thank you NM. I had read your addition to the post in which you forgot the ship on which you are the ARRSE resident SME. Admitting an oversight doesn't mean you didn't overlook it in the first place.

You post 11 on what MASF do in Argus, punctuated as it was by
.....anything else they {the RFA} didn't like doing, complained to their unions about and passed on to us lot.
read as if MASF had to do all the work while the RFA went ashore, slept late, got drunk and kept everyone else awake at night and generally abdicated their responsibilities for operating the ship. Your post above is a little more reasonable.

As for the WAFUs not having the right rig? I'm sure on receiving your first sea draft you're meant to be informed to withdraw tropical kit from stores no matter what your future ships programme is.
I'm sure you are. So sure that having not been told, I'd ask why not. With your experience, maybe you could have kept those WAFUs on their fist sea draft from looking silly. At least you are not suggesting it's the RFA's fault.

From the subsequent photographs on the MoD links it looks as if everyone in those photographs was properly dressed (RFA and RN).
 

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