Reversing Dr Beeching cuts

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
Then workplace parking charges are on the horizon.
Local councils in London are also introducing additional charges for residential permits, etc. Non-compliant vehicles again in their sights.
Loads of chat about buses, but they're only viable because of heavy subsidy from councils. F Glasgow has had an excellent service for the last twenty odd years, but recently subsidies have been slashed by councils and routes are being scrapped by operators as no longer viable.
So there needs to be a complete re think.
It seems the councils, local and national, think climate change is a wonderful thing because it is an opportunity to make more money while doing little or nothing about it. Public charging points are few and far between, and public transport is being cut whenever there is a chance. Attempts at improving infrastructure are not bothered with because only more houses mean more council tax.

Similarly those who play trains feel they should charge as much as possible for car parking which means commuters will park up on pavements wherever they like because there is no such thing as policing any more. The environment is only considered where there is an opportunity for publicity involving "speshul" young people.
 
It seems the councils, local and national, think climate change is a wonderful thing because it is an opportunity to make more money while doing little or nothing about it. Public charging points are few and far between, and public transport is being cut whenever there is a chance. Attempts at improving infrastructure are not bothered with because only more houses mean more council tax.

Similarly those who play trains feel they should charge as much as possible for car parking which means commuters will park up on pavements wherever they like because there is no such thing as policing any more. The environment is only considered where there is an opportunity for publicity involving "speshul" young people.
The car parks do make an inordinate amount of money for rail, however, those pricing regimes also choke demand thus leading to a reduction in complaints about overcrowding... notice provision of parking where rail travel demand is low...
 
Whilst at the same time, Now having introduced new trains on the Eastern,they are saying these are banged out already so they'll need more infrastructure spending. Meantime back at the Ranch Suffolks A 14 needs upgrading so more whinging about the backlogs in Suffolk let alone the upgrades on the A12 and the new proposed tunnel crossing- Not exactly joined up or eco
 

MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor
But how long between driving through the departure airport entrance and actual take-off time?
This ten thousand times over. I always used to train it from Euston to Glasgow..then I discovered flying and flew everytime until now, when I've realised I cannot be ******* bothered with the half hour trip to the airport, the checking in, the security, the waiting around, the flight, the waiting for bags the trip from the airport.

**** that.

First Class from Glasgow to Euston next month - 4hrs and some minutes station to station and I'll rock up about a minute before it leaves and not have my ******** fingered for the privilege and still cheaper than flying.
 
This ten thousand times over. I always used to train it from Euston to Glasgow..then I discovered flying and flew everytime until now, when I've realised I cannot be ******* bothered with the half hour trip to the airport, the checking in, the security, the waiting around, the flight, the waiting for bags the trip from the airport.

**** that.

First Class from Glasgow to Euston next month - 4hrs and some minutes station to station and I'll rock up about a minute before it leaves and not have my ******** fingered for the privilege and still cheaper than flying.
Depends.
I was in London in June for a conference at the Excel. Bearing in mind that I have to drive almost as far to a railway station as to Edinburgh Airport, when I worked it out, all the fannying around between Kings Cross and Docklands made it much quicker to fly to London City. I did fly with only hand luggage, though.
More surprisingly, flying was cheaper too.
 
...Similarly those who play trains feel they should charge as much as possible for car parking which means commuters will park up on pavements wherever they like because there is no such thing as policing any more. The environment is only considered where there is an opportunity for publicity involving "speshul" young people.
Snipped that and absolutely agree. As a cynical oldie, I think with the current police numbers we have, and not a few morons on the roads, things are only going to get worse. As for re-opening old railway lines and better air quality management, being cynical again - from experience and reported complaints from rail users- I'd expect rail fares and sundry charges to stay at ripoff levels with bad management, delays and profiteering.

Rail users to mount 'national day of action' over 3.1% fare rise

Never one to bang on about the environment and air pollution, but it's obvious as Public Health England points out, that pollution levels are over legal limits and toxic in parts of the UK. Also living near busy roads is cited as a cause of chronic ill health.

It's down to corporations and central government, who aren't listening. Businesses and councils don't want clean air zones (CAZ), and LAs claim they get nowhere near enough government cash for air pollution initiatives, while millions are ploughed into road building and repairs. We just have to crack on under bumbling government and nothing changes.
 
This ten thousand times over. I always used to train it from Euston to Glasgow..then I discovered flying and flew everytime until now, when I've realised I cannot be ******* bothered with the half hour trip to the airport, the checking in, the security, the waiting around, the flight, the waiting for bags the trip from the airport.

**** that.

First Class from Glasgow to Euston next month - 4hrs and some minutes station to station and I'll rock up about a minute before it leaves and not have my ******** fingered for the privilege and still cheaper than flying.
I agree with your concise description of both Edinburgh n abbotsinch internationals...
Alas those pendolinos make me sick with their swaying, so the thirty quid ticket isn't worth the empty stomach with the lack of fresh air

The sleeper service however once the teething sorts it self out is worth the money ….
 

MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor
I agree with your concise description of both Edinburgh n abbotsinch internationals...
Alas those pendolinos make me sick with their swaying, so the thirty quid ticket isn't worth the empty stomach with the lack of fresh air

The sleeper service however once the teething sorts it self out is worth the money ….
Sleeper has come on leaps and bounds, far less chance of being raped now (pro or con, your choice).

If you're flying to London, City is the way to go - I'm usually at either ExCel or Olympia and if I get the tickets early enough it can be cheap as chips, but I'm just tired of the rigmarole of flight.

On another note, with Beeching report being actioned, and numerous other issues, we've created for ourselves a far bigger problem - we've closed off a lot of the space that previously was brown or even greenfield sites. There is simply no longer the means by which to connect A to B.

Where I stay, a report came out about 40 years ago from a locally based transport engineer stating how (with marvellous foresight) in 60 years or so, the areas would be near to saturation, roads would be congested as car ownership grew and that major road networks would need to be developed to support this.

The report was ignored by the LA, naturally.

We're now at a stage where there is significant congestion between villages, there is no alternative option and no space to develop one as the corrdiors which did exist have now been closed off with housing developments.

It's the same all over the country.

Transport has always played second fiddle - even the latest development of 500 odd houses which had a plan for a rail stop has seen that rail stop kyboshed now the houses are complete. The developer never wanted to have to build it, NR never wanted to have to support it (my thoughts) and the LA were too weak to force it through.

So 500 houses now access the one main A road from a ******* turnoff for a leisure centre with no traffic control. You couldn't make this up.

They should lay the rails and the road first, then the amenities and then the houses.

I can't put a shelf up, but I can figure that out for fucksake. It's not difficult.
 
Depends.
I was in London in June for a conference at the Excel. Bearing in mind that I have to drive almost as far to a railway station as to Edinburgh Airport, when I worked it out, all the fannying around between Kings Cross and Docklands made it much quicker to fly to London City. I did fly with only hand luggage, though.
More surprisingly, flying was cheaper too.
I'm great fan of City- albeit I'm biased having had to work there, but it seemed to me regional airports like that are the way to go, but the reality is that the criteria has to fit to make any route commercially viable. Certainly I did LCY to Edinburgh about three or four times and thought it the dogs doodahs.
 
This could probably be cross-posted in the Welsh politics thread but fits here. Since the Plonker-in-Chief in Cardiff Bay cancelled the plans to move the M4 away from the Brynglas tunnels and condemned South Wales to ever-worsening traffic past Newport, it would seem logical to throw some political weight behind restoring Magor railway station (another Beeching loss) to use in order to give commuters another option. However, it is no closer to getting back into action, despite the residents calling for its re-opening for years. Paradoxically, transport in all its forms seems to be regarded by politicians at all levels as both an inconvenience and a cash cow. They don't seem to understand that making travelling easier benefits everybody through increased productivity and reduced costs.
 

goodoldboy

MIA
Book Reviewer
Depends.
I was in London in June for a conference at the Excel. Bearing in mind that I have to drive almost as far to a railway station as to Edinburgh Airport, when I worked it out, all the fannying around between Kings Cross and Docklands made it much quicker to fly to London City. I did fly with only hand luggage, though.
More surprisingly, flying was cheaper too.
I gave you a like because I was pleased that you had a decent journey. However, much of that was because you could get a flight straight into the city centre (almost) and that the arrival airport was within an easy stones throw of your final destination. Luck was on your side this time!
 
Whilst at the same time, Now having introduced new trains on the Eastern,they are saying these are banged out already so they'll need more infrastructure spending. Meantime back at the Ranch Suffolks A 14 needs upgrading so more whinging about the backlogs in Suffolk let alone the upgrades on the A12 and the new proposed tunnel crossing- Not exactly joined up or eco
What do you mean by 'banged out'?
 
I agree with your concise description of both Edinburgh n abbotsinch internationals...
Alas those pendolinos make me sick with their swaying, so the thirty quid ticket isn't worth the empty stomach with the lack of fresh air

The sleeper service however once the teething sorts it self out is worth the money ….
When have you taken a Pendi from Edinburgh?
 
Snipped that and absolutely agree. As a cynical oldie, I think with the current police numbers we have, and not a few morons on the roads, things are only going to get worse. As for re-opening old railway lines and better air quality management, being cynical again - from experience and reported complaints from rail users- I'd expect rail fares and sundry charges to stay at ripoff levels with bad management, delays and profiteering.

Rail users to mount 'national day of action' over 3.1% fare rise

Never one to bang on about the environment and air pollution, but it's obvious as Public Health England points out, that pollution levels are over legal limits and toxic in parts of the UK. Also living near busy roads is cited as a cause of chronic ill health.

It's down to corporations and central government, who aren't listening. Businesses and councils don't want clean air zones (CAZ), and LAs claim they get nowhere near enough government cash for air pollution initiatives, while millions are ploughed into road building and repairs. We just have to crack on under bumbling government and nothing changes.
Then you have the question.
You say 'rip-off fares' The Con Govt said that passengers should pay for using the railways - Ryanair charge you fro using their services - so why should rail passengers be subsidized by the tax-payer?

I don't feel the fares are a rip off - several weeks earlier, I could have got returns from London to Cumbria for 100 notes. Hiring the car cost just shy of 200, the fuel was a few quid and the upward journey took the best part of several fraught hours courtesy of the M11, A14, and M6 - if I had bought the tickets a day earlier, the train - 3 hours to Cumbria would have been much better. Indeed, if motorists were made to pay for the whole transport infrastructure they use - including all the maint, med, pol, fire and rescue, would that then be a rip off as well?
 
I gave you a like because I was pleased that you had a decent journey. However, much of that was because you could get a flight straight into the city centre (almost) and that the arrival airport was within an easy stones throw of your final destination. Luck was on your side this time!
Well, I did say it depends. I suppose if my end-destination was within walking distance or a short tube-ride from King’s Cross then the calculation would have been different. However, everytime I travel to London on business I go through this check and it has never yet worked out quicker to use the train. The train is normally more expensive too, although this depends on when I can travel.

ETA: the other problem is with the timing of the trains. If I have to be in London for 10:30 or earlier, travelling by train forces me to either travel the night before or use the sleeper. By plane, I just have to get up early.
 
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When have you taken a Pendi from Edinburgh?
I made it as far as Carlisle for Glasgow before calling for Huey loudly violently and that kick in the stomach that only travel sickness causes
The helpful virgin stewardess assisted with tissues plus cold water, admitting that passengers were sick due to the swaying.

The majority won’t be affected yet those suffering from travel sickness deserve something
 
The reopening of the borders railway, wasn’t as straightforward as first time round, it worked though if Carlisle to Edinburgh gets the go ahead even better

Personally Oban to Stirling has its scenery, yet like the rest and be thankful falling rocks are the problem.

Would be nice fairly flat plus allow those dependent on the buses another option

Strathendrick and Aberfoyle Railway - Wikipedia
 
The reopening of the borders railway, wasn’t as straightforward as first time round, it worked though if Carlisle to Edinburgh gets the go ahead even better

Personally Oban to Stirling has its scenery, yet like the rest and be thankful falling rocks are the problem.

Would be nice fairly flat plus allow those dependent on the buses another option

Strathendrick and Aberfoyle Railway - Wikipedia
I may have mentioned it before, but there is a lot of discussion locally about re-opening the old Edinburgh to Perth mainline between Dunfermline and Perth. It would face the same difficulties as the Borders line did, but additionally would require a new tunnel through the Ochils, as the old grade went through a narrow gap at Glenfarg that is now filled by the M90. I’m pretty sure that this would push the cost comfortably into the unaffordable bracket although I would personally welcome it.
 
Then you have the question.
You say 'rip-off fares' The Con Govt said that passengers should pay for using the railways - Ryanair charge you fro using their services - so why should rail passengers be subsidized by the tax-payer?

I don't feel the fares are a rip off - several weeks earlier, I could have got returns from London to Cumbria for 100 notes. Hiring the car cost just shy of 200, the fuel was a few quid and the upward journey took the best part of several fraught hours courtesy of the M11, A14, and M6 - if I had bought the tickets a day earlier, the train - 3 hours to Cumbria would have been much better. Indeed, if motorists were made to pay for the whole transport infrastructure they use - including all the maint, med, pol, fire and rescue, would that then be a rip off as well?
You must have misunderstood, I don't remember suggesting that the taxpayer should subsidise rail passengers. Train operators and staff must have a hard time of it, and I'd imagine that managers and government aren't helping. But as a punter I just look at ticket prices, service, and value for money. Deutsche Bahn, for instance, have seen "net profits of over £630 million", although I believe it's selling Arriva - which "generated revenues of €5.44bn" - amid mounting debts.

There will be arguments for and against rail travel costs and rail operators, but as a punter the info and arguments aren't hard to find, if you look for them yourself. Rail firms have paid over £1 billion to shareholders in last 6 years, finds TUC.

Rising fares and overcrowded services aren't difficult to prove. Don't try and tell me that rail operators aren't profiteering or that shareholders aren't laughing. Rail travel can be great, but it can be too expensive and overcrowded, often delayed and often shabby. That's besides underwhelming staff. Not good value for money. And while we're at it: low income earners lose out, especially if more than half of the UK’s total spending on transport networks is invested in London and the south-east.

I'm going to need some good arguments to change my opinion.
 
I made it as far as Carlisle for Glasgow before calling for Huey loudly violently and that kick in the stomach that only travel sickness causes
The helpful virgin stewardess assisted with tissues plus cold water, admitting that passengers were sick due to the swaying.

The majority won’t be affected yet those suffering from travel sickness deserve something
You were on a Voyager. They truly are sh%t.
 

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