Reversing Dr Beeching cuts

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
Suppose a person in my area with no car needs to go to hospital. For some, it's a shortish hobble to the bus stop and two routes converge giving a 15 min service. For others it's a half hour service and some have a very long walk to a stop. Punctuality is conditional on there being no untoward congestion so in case buses are running late the prudent will plan to take the bus before the one the timetable suggests. This is to ensure catching the right next bus which is a perhaps problematic ten minute service and a half-hour journey leg. The invalid then has to change buses which means using a pedestrian footbridge over a main road, no fun if groggy or feeble. Last lap is fairly prompt as three routes to the hospital converge. The lucky invalid needs to allow an hour and a quarter (plus walk time to first bus stop) to cover six miles or so and if using a bus pass cannot accept an appointment before 1050.

By car, any old time of appointment and takes about half an hour including allowing for delays, 4 sets of traffic lights, parking (pay!) etc.

The same sorts of consideration apply to taking a train anywhere as one has to get to the station and then at the other end maybe a taxi. Costs on trains with £100k p.a. drivers are astronomical unless pre-booked yonks in advance and on one trip to London not long ago I got tipped off two trains that wouldn't go the distance and only got to my destination on time because I was able to catch the third train because it was running late. Car in London is a no-no though, but, haul up the ladder, I have a Boris freebie Tube Oyster.

When my area did have a train it was an hourly service only, and limited hours, and did not serve half the area the buses did - station four miles from some locations.
 
That’s a bit of a curates egg,

I agree that the Beeching cuts were a mistake based on fiddled data (I live in the largest town in Britain without a railway station).

I would need some convincing that Harold MacMillan, his Tory Government, Marples and Beeching were engaged in liberalising Britain.
Mr Putin might have been thinking of the Liberalism that has given us, among other things, political correctness, celebrity worship, snowflakery and population saturation.
 
If the Beeching cuts had not been made, the roads would still be as congested as they are now. What we would have is hundreds of empty trains stopping at hundreds of empty stations costing the taxpayer £billions more than it is at present. Everyone wants more trains so that other people will become commuters leaving the roads free for them!
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
The 'Beeching' cuts also relieved the motorist (you lot) of a number of level crossings. And the taxpayer of an ever increasing bill.
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
The fastest train from Pitlochry to Waverley takes 1hr 50min, the majority of them are more than 2hrs.
Anyone travelling by train North of the Forth & Clyde needs to be not in a hurry.
Two hours from Glasgow to Dumfries….yet only 45 minutes to Lockerbie on the London train then 11 by road…. the joys of stopping at every rural station.
 
I keep seeing the thread title appear, and I'm just imaging Alexi Sayle singing "Dr Beechings Cuts" to the tune of Dr Martens Boots
 
If the Beeching cuts had not been made, the roads would still be as congested as they are now. What we would have is hundreds of empty trains stopping at hundreds of empty stations costing the taxpayer £billions more than it is at present. Everyone wants more trains so that other people will become commuters leaving the roads free for them!
Two people disagreeing with my post, fair enough we are a democracy, but pray tell, (without left wing drug induced reality ignoring tablets) how keeping all these railway lines open would have stopped everyone from becoming motorists?
 
Two people disagreeing with my post, fair enough we are a democracy, but pray tell, (without left wing drug induced reality ignoring tablets) how keeping all these railway lines open would have stopped everyone from becoming motorists?
I'm not sure it would have done.

However, taking a much longer term view of critical infrastructure might have seen them kept open - the petrol / diesel car although an epoch, is coming to an end with climate change.
 
One way of increasing the use of trains (and public transport in general), is Park & Ride. There's one near me. Monday to Friday it's ALWAYS full by 7:15 at the latest, often earlier. So if you aren't a very early bird, it's the peasant wagon or a car to get into the city centre. Hence the totally snarled up roads from around 7:30 onwards.

I can't help but think that if local authorities were sincere about improving air quality, they'd be expanding P&R facilities before implementing Clear Air Zones, which are the coming thing nowadays. CAZ = you pay to drive into them, just like a congestion charge. There are 4 classes of zone, A, B, C and D. As a car driver if the zone is a D, you pay. A, B and C are only for busses, HGVs and the like.

An expanded P&R is only an area of blacktop, very cheap in comparison to the signing, cameras and back office shenanigans that a CAZ scheme will require. But there again a CAZ directly generates income for a local authority, so is obviously preferable to their bottom line over a P&R which generates no income. Cynical? Moi?

Yet another tax on the motorist. Coming soon to a city near you.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...data/file/612592/clean-air-zone-framework.pdf

Clean air zone framework for England: Annex B and Annex C - a Freedom of Information request to Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
 
I'm not sure it would have done.

However, taking a much longer term view of critical infrastructure might have seen them kept open - the petrol / diesel car although an epoch, is coming to an end with climate change.
Just as the Dinosaurs and the mass extinction events- mind I can just see the new Electric car supporters find all gooey eyed equivalent of the exhaust note. Man that charging rate is something else. Star wars and hoverbikes trying not to hit trees perhaps
 
Just as the Dinosaurs and the mass extinction events- mind I can just see the new Electric car supporters find all gooey eyed equivalent of the exhaust note. Man that charging rate is something else. Star wars and hoverbikes trying not to hit trees perhaps
Just as the Dinosaurs and the mass extinction events- mind I can just see the new Electric car supporters find all gooey eyed equivalent of the exhaust note. Man that charging rate is something else. Star wars and hoverbikes trying not to hit trees perhaps
Is it not Dunstable that has no rail service? The Penrith line to Keswick would be a tourism money spinner as would the Lakeside, Windermere line, surely other lines around as well. I think one line that will re-open is the direct Carlisle to Edinburgh line, but, only because of the Scottish Govt.

However, no-one has answered why we are not taking account of Brexit to repeal legislation on OHLE clearances thus allowing electrification to go ahead un-impeded by cost on the GWML to name one? Not to mention repeal legislation on PRM-TSI thus allowing literally thousands of pieces of rolling stock to be retained?
 
Is it not Dunstable that has no rail service? The Penrith line to Keswick would be a tourism money spinner as would the Lakeside, Windermere line, surely other lines around as well. I think one line that will re-open is the direct Carlisle to Edinburgh line, but, only because of the Scottish Govt.

However, no-one has answered why we are not taking account of Brexit to repeal legislation on OHLE clearances thus allowing electrification to go ahead un-impeded by cost on the GWML to name one? Not to mention repeal legislation on PRM-TSI thus allowing literally thousands of pieces of rolling stock to be retained?
I'm not saying you're wrong, they certainly as would sections in the East where I abide. I'm sure some bright spark may recgonise that, but could I just point out that it can't happen before the 31st October. I'm also sure that that in the fullness of time the eco warriors will drive the preserved steam industry under. I mean we can't have blokes and some some women getting their hands dirty and burning coal can we?
 
One way of increasing the use of trains (and public transport in general), is Park & Ride. There's one near me. Monday to Friday it's ALWAYS full by 7:15 at the latest, often earlier. So if you aren't a very early bird, it's the peasant wagon or a car to get into the city centre. Hence the totally snarled up roads from around 7:30 onwards.

I can't help but think that if local authorities were sincere about improving air quality, they'd be expanding P&R facilities before implementing Clear Air Zones, which are the coming thing nowadays. CAZ = you pay to drive into them, just like a congestion charge. There are 4 classes of zone, A, B, C and D. As a car driver if the zone is a D, you pay. A, B and C are only for busses, HGVs and the like.

An expanded P&R is only an area of blacktop, very cheap in comparison to the signing, cameras and back office shenanigans that a CAZ scheme will require. But there again a CAZ directly generates income for a local authority, so is obviously preferable to their bottom line over a P&R which generates no income. Cynical? Moi?

Yet another tax on the motorist. Coming soon to a city near you.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...data/file/612592/clean-air-zone-framework.pdf

Clean air zone framework for England: Annex B and Annex C - a Freedom of Information request to Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
I don't believe LAs are sincere about air quality, but they do like road and parking revenues, not least tourist taxis. Consequences of austerity gone mad, and cash strapped councils?
 
I'm not sure it would have done.

However, taking a much longer term view of critical infrastructure might have seen them kept open - the petrol / diesel car although an epoch, is coming to an end with climate change.
Certainly in London within first the north/south circular road, then within the M25 as various congestion charges are levelled against non-compliant vehicles. Then workplace parking charges are on the horizon.

Local councils in London are also introducing additional charges for residential permits, etc. Non-compliant vehicles again in their sights.
 

MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Loads of chat about buses, but they're only viable because of heavy subsidy from councils. F Glasgow has had an excellent service for the last twenty odd years, but recently subsidies have been slashed by councils and routes are being scrapped by operators as no longer viable.

So there needs to be a complete re think.
 
Loads of chat about buses, but they're only viable because of heavy subsidy from councils. F Glasgow has had an excellent service for the last twenty odd years, but recently subsidies have been slashed by councils and routes are being scrapped by operators as no longer viable.

So there needs to be a complete re think.
Post buses used to be an option in rural parts of the UK but with one delivery and one collection, not really practical for commuting.
 

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