Results are in and it is leave the EU

Discussion in 'Brexit' started by Guns, Jun 23, 2016.

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  1. One of the few Brexit positives is the lack of CS is very good news for consultants, contractors or those on the CL1 framework.

    I do however passionately feel for those tasked with delivering Brexit within resources, with no clear political direction. It is an unenviable task.
     
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  2. The only way to defeat fake news (propaganda) is with fact checking and exposing the lies.
     
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  3. Christ. Just checking in and it never fails to amaze me just how ignorant and utterly deluded TT is WRT to brexit.

    Stunning. Absolutely stunning
     
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  4. I agree but there are many fact resistant people out there, it's what politicians have always relied on. Trump for instance is only a natural progression, he's certainly entertained and continues to give VFM on OMFG front.
     
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  5. One side to the CAP that needs looking at is just how much it has distorted the farming industry here in the last 40 years and then consider if this has been a good thing.
    The cap when it was originally set up was ( if we are being kind), to keep small farmers in the French and Italian hinterlands on the land, it supported small family farms with 3 or 4 cows or a hectare of olives and although the
    Farmer probably had another job it enabled small villages in the wilds to remain viable. Highly commendable socially.
    This ,unfortunately on the continent as well as here progressively went pear shaped by that well known trait of " if there's a fiddle and someone else is paying for it let's kick the arse out of it, "hence the wine lakes etc back in the day.
    Where it went wrong here was the sub for Pierre's 4 hectares of barley also applied to farmer Parmers rolling acres of Hertfordshire with the relevant scaling up.
    This has made arable farming in the last couple of decades very attractive to very big investors both as a hedge ( no pun intended) and a big payer
    This has driven an ever upward spiral of land prices so as to make starting up as a youngster even with family backing in most cases utterly untenable.
    We have seen in the last 20 years the biggest contraction of numbers of landowners since the enclosure acts. I would hold that this has been an expensive ( remember who has been one of the major financial contributor to running cap, ........... a hint you and me) way of buggering up our rural communities.
    In livestock sub of different kinds have also distorted things.
    In my bit of the lake district as a kid my family limbed about 1k ewes without claiming hill sub and made a good profit ( cheviot swale crosses put to a Leicester if your interested) many of my school bus mates dads farmed not trust farms pissing about with herdwicks and managing to run an old escort van and a 15 year old 135 with a transport box on.
    Their sons now farm less livestock equally badly but move the transport box on a 60k tractor ( and I do mean all of them) and run round in new king cabs,
    I have the sneaking feeling this has not been acquired through more efficient farming .
    I would put to you that the whole edifice needs looking at again and if land prices came down a bit there would be plenty of new blood that would give it a go.




    In my opinion of course.
     
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  6. And we are all still leaving.
    All of us whatever our respective views may be.
    Farming outside of the UK is not having such a good time either, a French survey a couple of years back revealed that less than 10% of the families of farmers want to continue with the family farm.
    The other 90% see how hard the work is, what it has done to their parents health and are saying non merci.
    Troubles abound all over the place, in the UK and on the Continent and more than one apple cart has been upset and pushed over in this respect.
    Regardless of Brexit problems are coming anyway.
    Wherever you currently live.
    Around 119 million people were at risk of poverty or social exclusion in the EU in 2015 (Eurostat report October 2016), representing more than 23% of the EU population.
    Taken from this report as previously linked to dated December 16th, 2016.

    Rural areas and poverty

    Quite recent I would say, and certainly after the referendum we are all talking about.
    Everyone, but everyone is going to take a hit after Brexit, certainly 119 million people living on the Continent will.
    A little perspective from a couple of the more hysterical posters on here would be good.
     
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  7. True but as stated, we (and Germany) blocked EU attempts to reform on that particular issue, Owen Paterson being the man. A Brexiteer as is Dyson, big farms will get support from that wing of the Tory party.

    Fox is pro US because that's where he'll profit. The only person who's spoken out against chlorinated chicken is Gove, doesn't fit in well with his green portrayal. Gove is best hope for UK farming from within the current crop.

    This should be a cross party, including devolved governments, issue since it's so important to our future and needs buy in from all.
     
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  8. Auld-Yin

    Auld-Yin LE Reviewer Book Reviewer Reviews Editor

    Post Brexit there will be some people who take a hit financially while some will make money. The majority will take the hit initially though.

    This has been apparent for years - the UK leaving the EU means their treasury has to spread the largesse a bit more thinly. That being the known case the EU still refused the UK requests for change leading to the UK referendum and ultimately Brexit. They could have headed this off long ago but thought that the UK would never vote to leave. The harvest is about to be reaped. If anyone wants to start laying about blame claims then they should start at
     
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  9. Auld-Yin

    Auld-Yin LE Reviewer Book Reviewer Reviews Editor

    IIRC we blocked CAP reforms because they were not really reform but just rearranging the deckchairs. However, we have been over this endlessly before and sure be looking to future reform.
     
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  10. It's what the EU Social Fund and European Regional Development Fund are about so yes, there'll be a knock on and it's part of the reasoning behind the exit bill, for commitments already made.

    It had an immediate effect on UK ERDF funding recipients as the government suspended payments shortly after the referendum. Possibly due to being unwilling to match the payments.

    UK suspends payments from £3bn EU development fund days after Brexit vote
     
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  11. I stand to be corrected, but I believe an important factor influencing the size of French farms, is that individuals are not allowed to disinherit their children, unless the children voluntarily, and in writing, renounce their right to inherit.

    Each generation therefore ends up with a progressively smaller piece of land than their predecessors, which soon becomes commercially unsustainable.

    So French farmers need grants to keep them going, which, no doubt, accounts for their governments fighting so hard to keep CAP at current or higher levels with consequential inflationary effects on the likes of the UK where individuals can leave what they want to who they want.

    Others here will be able to explain the system in other EU states.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  12. Unenviable being a scapegoat for sure.
     
  13. You could always read this, which points to the direct that future UK policy will point.

    EU rules allow Member States to cut substantially so-called “basic payments” under the CAP to large landowners, such as most of those cited in the Greenpeace report, by applying an upper limit (ceiling). Nine Member States do so.

    In the UK, such a ceiling is applied in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales – with the resulting funds generated remaining in those regions for rural development projects.

    The UK chooses not to apply a ceiling in England.

    The European Commission’s repeated proposals for more radical reform have been watered down by national Ministers.


    Ceiling flaw in suggestion EU rules behind payments to big landowners - European Commission

    Dyson's comments about Gove's comments the other week were entertaining mind.
     
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  14. Gavelkind, as opposed to Primogeniture ?

    William I (The Conqueror) introduced the latter here. I'm surprised the former exists anywhere in the advanced world.
     
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  15. Ummm well, here's the thing, ancient, not worth butchering sheep breeds get more subsidy than economical sheep, in some cases upto £70 per hectare subsidy. These are sheep that are just decoration for the moors and no good except for the cheapest pet food. Guess who farms them and why? Yup, toy farmers; people with very nice jobs in the financial sector (and a certain national newspaper editor, famed for his rants about the unemployed and unions) they're doing their bit for Britain's farming heritage and getting some very nice tax write-offs too. Meanwhile Farner Giles continues to struggle to pay his rent for his pasture, gets screwed by the supermarkets... Of course, all those marketing boards which set fair prices for farmer and consumer were the damned work of the devil and had to be disbanded.... 10 more years and the independent family farmer just might not exist. @Ravers does a bit, where is he these days?
     
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