Reserve Infantry

Discussion in 'Multinational HQ' started by gingwarr, Oct 27, 2005.

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  1. There's a thread going on in the Infantry section of the site discussing Territorial Army Infantry, and their training (more specifically whether TA Inf training is out of date or not).

    As the conversation developed, changing to a National Guard style training system was mooted. Basically, TA infantry do all of their training on a part time basis, apart from the final two weeks, which is conducted by the regulars (as opposed to the first part of their training, which is conducted by the recruits own batallion).

    What are the thoughts from you johnny foreigner types? Also any experiences (good or bad) you've got of TA inf would be appreciated (it's always good to find what others think of you).
  2. The biggest difference is that our National Guard and Reservists receive basic training and advanced individual training at a regular army training facility. A recruit can take two summers to complete their training or do it in one shot of +4 months depending on speciality.
  3. I´d prefer a system like the scandinavian homeguard more than national guard. Currently as a reservist in German Bundeswehr there is the possibility to train either only at a reserve unit or together with regular soldiers on active duty.
    All reservists in Germany are former soldiers so they all got their basic training during active time.

    I trained a lot together with danish and swedish homeguard who get their basic training at weekend courses but they behave very professional at their tasks.
  4. Going down the route of the National Guard or Australian Reserve forces training system would kill TA recruiting dead.

    As someone who was very interested in signing up to the reserve forces here in OZ i found that there was no way that my employer would let me off for 6 weeks to do my basic all over again. No employer in their right mind would agree to this - i certainly wouldn't let any of my staff do it - the temp fees would kill my budget and bottom line.

    It is no wonder that the National Guard and Australian Defence force are really struggling to recruit (even when you take Iraq out of the equation). To go down the path that they have chosen would be the biggest mistake the UK armed forces could possibly make.

    A better solution is to keep the recruit training programme as it is, but add a significant number of weekends post "phase 1/ 2" training to bring them up to the right levels. This would give better value for money to all concerned.
  5. What about the modular course?

    This is being implimented in Canada for reservists, starting with officers and some specialist trades

    Essentially for a Reserve Infantry Officer (for example) the Course is 11 Weeks Phase 2 and 13 Weeks for Phase 3. A total of 26 weeks over two years.

    Now, for University Students who have four months off a year it works fine, however for people who work and can't get the time off it dosn't work.
    So, the Army decided to impliment the modular course. Essentially a course is broken down into 2 week modules, so people can go and attend 1, 2, 3 however many modules they can take time off for. This is implimented primarly in the Infantry, however is spreading as Reserve Officer Training is linked with the regular force.

    This has the drawback of sometimes taking officers/other ranksyears to qualify, however it allows personnel to be trained around their work schedule as well as makes it easier if they are unable to complete the course, they can be started back at the module which they were last on before being removed from the course.
  6. What was supposed to happen with this training in Canada, was for those phases to be oganised in (connected) two week segments, so that those who could only get two weeks time from work could be 'plugged in'. This way there are enough candidates to conduct a course. It works if it is made to work. While Canada has always avoided legislation such as the US has, agreements can be made with employers to allow two weeks time.
    Special two week courses depend on a minimum number of candidates to run, and sometimes there may not be the numbers for a year, or more.
    This was a problem in years past. CRTCP MTCP MOTP etc etc.

    Raincoats on, raincoats off.

    Positions on Regular Force courses should always be made available for Reservists who have the time to commit to them.
  7. Agreed.

    Couple of mates are in the Finnish HG, they are ex full timers,who went reserve when they got out, and now have 'normal' 9-5 jobs.

    They're fairly young also, late thirties, and some of the training they do is certainly in no way shape of form similar to that of their popular BBC comedy namesakes.
  8. Aren't these guys all ex regs due to conscription (both Finland and Germany)? It raises the point that if your regular reserve is large enough, do you need a voluntary one? Just a point...

    What's employer liability/protection like in other countries? Is it essentially lip service (UK model), or will the wrath of God descend upon a manager who doesn't allow a reservist to head off for two weeks (US Model)?
  9. Using the above stats, if a chap was a flier (got promoted every other year sort of thing), that could mean asking a boss for 11/13 weeks off every year. And that's before any other courses, unit level training or holiday. Does it work?
  10. Some will be,but not all. Some prefer to opt to wipe OAP arse rather than serve with the panzergrenadiers,but each to their own!

    The volunteer element allows them to serve when they're able to,bit like with the TA (in theory!!),it's more proactive.

    Or I have I missed the point you were tring to make?

    With Finland especially I'd imagine employers are quite good because it's a relatively new country,and national pride is still fairly high, I think as you rightly pointed out, that most people are ex conscripts, there's probably likely to be greater awareness/sympathy to what's involved.

    I'll try and find out.
  11. Normally that's how they have been running, with the exception of Phase 2 course and the way in which the PLQ is run sometimes, however the modules are normally all connected.

    As of this year, they are, at least for CAP/Ph2 Ph3/DP1.1 as for others, I'm not sure.. I was up on it this summer and despite the massive amount of courses running, most of the Reserve Officer Cadets/ 2Lts outside of one of the platoons were mixed in with Regular Force courses, with the exception of one reserve only course which was designed for the late started. CAP/Ph2 is universal now and is mixed Reg/Reserve

    From what was passed on down the chain of command, they designed the courses for people who have 4 months off a year (University Students), at least for Officers.

    I'm not sure about SNCO/JNCO/OR Training, however most Junior Rank training is also designed around students coming in. (Weekend courses, Summer courses and the like.) For SNCOs, I'm pretty sure that the course was broken up into four of five modules, at least recently. So a person could do the course over 2-3 years, perhaps before they had time in.

    With the older system before modular courses, they were also for the most part reserve only, shorter with far less time involved (6 weeks vice 11 for Phase 2 for example and I think 8 weeks vice 13 for Phase 3). With the modular course, it can work a lot better for people who have time off, when I was on course this summer I had many of my course mates only in for 1 or 2 modules before they had to head home due to work commitments, that means next year they can pick up here they left off and finish the course.

    As for exactly how well it works, all the courses are being revamped/changed so its too early to tell, this year though was the first year of mixed Reserve/Regular Courses.

    As well, On the bus, off the bus..... Next year I'm sure its going to be changed again, it always is.

    (Edit- Added Ph3/DP1.1, forgot about that course)
    (Second Edit- Reworded somthing, added the bit on SNCO/JNCO/OR Training)
  12. They have set time in rank requirements for promotion. Fliers are not too common. TIR can be waived but there are restrictions on waivers and the number that can be given.
    The two week block modules work when there is good liaison with employers. Since there is no legislation mandating time off for military service training, it can be a mess. Often reservists themselves play games at the 'only two weeks a year and it's the only time off I get' thing.
    So, it works in theory.
    Employers that recognise the potential value of military training and allow special leave for military courses are rare.