Reserve Forces Policy

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by tebagagap, May 8, 2007.

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  1. Hello All.

    I'm about to start a new job within a public sector organisation.

    I was more than suprised that the orgainsation does not have a Reserve Forces policy. I am interested in hearing from anyone who has negotiated a policy with their employers and generally some good practice on how to go about getting a good running policy set up.

    Any examples of policies that you have knocking about would also be an advantage. Any examples of good terms or points to includes would also be a bonus.

    Cheers all,

  2. what authourtiy
    what service
    what arm
    Reserve forces or TA or RAFAux etc

    I think that you will understand why the radar has just gone up.....
  3. I’ve just been through this myself after recently converting to a full timer from a contractor.

    You’re employer doesn’t need a reserve forces policy and neither do you.

    Their only legal requirement is not to bin you if you are compulsory mobilised.
    They don’t have to give you time off of training/annual camp.
    They don’t need to let you leave at a reasonable time to attend dill nights.
    They don’t need to do fcuk all…

    They can invent reasons to sack you so long as they’re not related to you being in the TA, which leaves much to their imagination.

    Sadly the government doesn’t protect us nor does it give any incentives to employers.
  4. There's no requirement for your employer to have a policy. Of those that do, some are just a couple of paragraphs covering the key points, some have several pages covering every detail of what to do in the event of mobilisation etc.

    If your new employer is interested in adopting a policy (suggest that it is better for you and them, and any other employees in the Reserve Forces, if you all know where you stand) then I'd suggest contacting SaBRE's rep for your region (details on their website) who will be able to help you put something appropriate together.
  5. Hmmmm not too sure about this 'Radar' chap, not looking for state secrets...however....and bearing in mind my persec here you go...

    Authority: NHS Ambulance Trust
    TA (Don't see why my arm is important, one army afterall)

    Why? I have seen similiar organisations create policies that support their employees involvement with the reserve forces. I am very much in the mind of 'if you don't ask you don't get'

    I would be looking for extra paid/unpaid leave for camp, I have seen this reflected in other Trusts policies, either 1 week paid and the second week unpaid, or just 2 extra unpaid leave weeks a year. To be honest anything is better than nothing.

    As it's a new job i think i'm in a position to start off wth the right foot, obviously not to be seen as taking the piss. They were very pro TA at my interview so i get the feeling they could be even more supportive.

  6. If it is a public sector, ie government whether local or central, it will have a reserve forces policy. FACT. It sounds as if they are bluffing you. Speak to head of HR. If you are NHS, you should have access to an intranet with the department's rules on it. Check it out, it will tell you all you need to know. As a guideline, the Home Office give you eight day special leave for a 15 day exercise. I will put money on that it is more or less the same.
    One government dept cannot say no to another...teh civil service leads by example (God help us!)!!!!
  7. tebagagap
    check your PMs
  8. Sorry, not true in the case of the NHS. There is some general NHS guidance but it is up to each individual Trust to decide what they do.
  9. Crossed Axes is right, Trusts have an amazing amount of automony and my particular one does not have a written policy regarding reserve forces, Of course they will abide by reserve forces legislation but i am hoping to get something in writing that may help other reserve personelle.

    With the tempo of training and ops that we all currently have i think employers should be encouraged to go that little bit extra for their staff. They certainly reap the benifits from have a more proactive workforce!

    Sabre seems a good place to start, but it seems more aimed at employers taking the first step. I will have a look anyway.

    Cheers all.
  10. Support can be localised. To give examples some private employees are very suportive, some civil service areas are s**T including sometimes the MOD! In my experience the police and fire service can be either depending upon the chief constable/firestopper in that area.

    The important thing is that the LEGISLATION rather than policy will offer you little protection, and if mobilised an employer can play a joker and get it annulled. You need to find out your individual employer's view.

    Add to that there may be a policy but your line manager can still be difficult.

    Anyway good luck and I hope you join.
  11. Although I don't work for an NHS Trust or indeed a public-sector organisation I managed to negotiate a paid extra week off solely for the purposes of camp.

    Very much on a don't-ask-don't-get sort of approach after my second interview I asked what policy they had and included the standard Sabre policy that you can get off their website as an example.

    The Sabre website clearly states that there is no obligation to provide for additional time off and I was angling for 2 weeks unpaid leave for camp. However, as it happens they offered me a week's paid leave instead.

    Recently someone from my work has joined the same unit as me. While he has yet to complete CMSR - and hence has neither a mobilisation liability nor a statutory requirement to inform our employer formally - it appears that the same policy will apply to him too.

    I don't know how relevant this next fact is: I work for the UK arm of an American company. The UK company has not had any mobilisations and hence doesn't have a policy on this at the moment. However, the US company apparently won some sort of award for being a supportive employer when lots of employees were called out for the National Guard in 2003.
  12. You're right that you will not be mobilised under the current criteria until much later than CMSR. And perhaps the MoD waits until after CMSR before writing to your employer - I don't know. However, the statement that your buddy "has neither a mobilisation liability nor a statutory requirement to inform our employer formally" is not right.

    As soon as you attest you become a member of the Territorial Army (Reserve Forces Act 1996, section 50 and paragraph 3(5) of Schedule 1). This means that your liability to be mobilised and the obligation to inform your employer arise then.

    Tebagagap: As others have pointed out (including you), this really is a negotiating issue for you and your employer rather than a question of assertable legal rights. So you need to marshal as many arguments as you can.

    It might be worthwhile finding out what the reserve forces policy which applied to your colleagues in the Trust was when it was still in the NHS. That policy will still apply to them unless the Trust successfully made them adopt new terms and conditions after their employment was transferred to it. So you could argue that you want to be treated the same as they are being treated (if the same terms still apply) or were treated (if they don't).

    Obviously, you could also refer to the current policy for those still in the NHS and in other trusts. For example, the Pontypridd & Rhondda NHS Trust's policy on leave for specific purposes other than annual leave and leave covered under the special leave policy states:

    If I were you, I would aim for something similar to that but perhaps expressed as follows:

    You can be silent about all the stuff which you are entitled to anyway by law (reinstatement after mobilisation, etc.).

    The Sabre HR policy (here) says pretty much the same, only using many more words. It is good for the statements of intent, etc., but I would use my wording above in place of their bullet points which deal with training obligations, as mine is less wooly.

    That policy also mentions the possiblity that the employer might voluntarily grant unpaid time off lasting three or six months for peace support or humanitarian operations. That would be fantastic to get but is a lot to ask - so think hard before requesting it.
  13. Can I suggest you google NHS Reserve Forces Policy? You will find some 129 000 hits...which is less than I scored earlier this week for clown porn. I also suggest you put in Sabre and NHS. You will find biographical details of one David Amos, who seems to be the go-to guy for NHS and Reserve Forces input. See

    It is not hard to find this stuff unless you are lazy, silly or lacking in get up and go. Luckily Cuddles has been trashed this week and so while waspy lacks energy to be scathing. So good luck in the new job anyway!
  14. Cuddles, dear boy, as crossed_axes has already pointed out, "there is some general NHS guidance but it is up to each individual Trust to decide what they do."

    The link to Mr Amos is useful but note that he "was the principal link with the Ministry of Defence on matters relating to Reservists in the health service." Would be worthwhile for teabag to get in touch with SaBRE to find out who the current one is and pester him/her.

    This policy is much better-drafted than the P&R one. Policy I commend it to the house.
  15. According to your employer will not be notified until 4 weeks after completion of CMS(R). I understand that this was a tacit acceptance by MOD that as so many recruits fail to complete basic training, it was not worth bothering until that point.

    I would strongly suggest that, if you are looking at using unpaid leave, you get something into the policy about that leave being pensionable, even if it means that you have to personally fork out for employers and employee contributions. As I have pointed out in another thread, 2 weeks unpaid leave for 26 years equals the loss of a year from your pension scheme.