Reservations for Apache?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by OldRedCap, Jan 20, 2007.

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  1. There is a thread elsewhere about the use of Apache helicopters during the RM attack on a Taliban fort in Afghanistan. It’s cooking nicely and I don’t want to distract but, given the quotes above, I’m surprised that we are using Apache in a role that still leaves them open to the risk of loss from simple armament.

    Have ours been up-armoured or is it further evidence that the guys are fighting and doing so well with one arm tied behind their back by this parsimonious Government?
  2. The difference lies in the pilots. The USMC has lost less Cobras (which are far older and very much less advanced than the over rated Apaches.)

    Although this may not present the complete picture, it is generally believed that Army pilots do not fully engage the Apache to it's maximum potential.

    For Marine Pilots, it's all about pushing the limits.
  3. I think a WAH-64 is already as tank like as it can be. If you made a Helicopter totally bullet proof then it would never get off the ground.

    But hey, what do I know. :confused:
  4. I am reading Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq (Hardcover)
    by Thomas Ricks. Do not know his background but he writes that in 2006 US forces abandoned use of Apache on most missions purely on the basis of the 2003 incident.
  5. Is this an armour thing or a indication of the small target size of a cobra?
  6. Don't know if it has an real bearing on anything, but I was talking with a US Cav 1st Sgt and he was saying that most of their lads rated the cobra AH-1W as far better than the Apache. Similar offensive stores but a much smaller target.
  7. I really hate writers who sit on the fence, and leave us wondering what they really think . . .

    (Where can I get 2 copies of the large print version? I want to send one to B'liar, and one to Dubya - actually - thinking about it - that would be a really good swap. I wouldn't wanna burn the books - but if I could get one dunce for each book . . .

    [align=center]maybe I should just call Noel Edmonds[/align]

    [align=left]wait a minute: [/align]

    [align=center]Dubya would need the audio book version, [/align]

    [align=center]fixed to play at a slower speed than for people of normal comprehension .[/align]
    [Voices Offstage]. . NUUURSE bring the sedatives trolleeey . . . NOOOOOW!!!!!!

    sorry about that . . . rioja, y'know . . . :oops: :pissed:
  8. I gather our version of Apache has a better engine but could do with uprated transmission to deliver all the potential benifits to the full...I also think ours has better avionics as far too, but the US may have upgraded theirs now...
  9. [quote="Stonker]
    I really hate writers who sit on the fence, and leave us wondering what they really think . . .[/quote]

    He doesn't think too much of any of them. Comes down hard on Gen Franks
  10. He doesn't think too much of any of them. Comes down hard on Gen Franks[/quote]

    Any senior official in the pay of the US govt, who didn't resign rather than do what Dubya wanted in '03 should be at least be subject to pillory. At best - shot.

    That includes B'liar.

    Read both statements together, carefully.
  11. Always liked the Cobra as developed for the US Marine Corps. Used to work on the Bell 214b, with very similar Head and blades and that was a lifter, 8,000 Lbs max load if mi memory serves mi well.
    Stone age technology for the airframe but both the above have strong powerful donkeys, the Cobra being twin engined and the gearbox, transmision required, to allow the use at low or high altiude.
    You can overload a heli transmision, on many modern cabs the engines provided surplus power but taking off with above max load will screw up the Gearbox internals, giving the squared off Roller bearings that the Brit Lynx was nortorious for. But that and Tales of the Green Baron are another subject.
  12. Last Year March AFB Museum had an open day where you could climb inside the a/c rather than just look at them from the outside. One of the stands was an AH-1W manned by a pilot who had just finished a tour in Iraq in Apache. As a qualifed pilot on both, his view was that both are excellent in role - Apache is designed for the deep strike role and armor killing. AH-1W was designed for CAS role and out performs Apache in that role, but AH-1W could never match Apache in the deep stike role.

  13. Which is exactly why the Cobra is the best attack helo in an Iraq/Afghanistan type of battlefield. Now if Dubya decides to start another adventure in Iran....
  15. Not the last time the jocks have saved some yankie ass! :thumright: