Request for help-Deac question 4(T) can you help?

Discussion in 'Shooting, Hunting and Fishing' started by armr617, Nov 8, 2010.

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  1. Aimed at 4(t) but any RFD may be able to help.

    Mate has approached me at work, he has a enfield No.4 that he got in germany, deactivated, its been butchered, but i dont think enough for UK spec, he has no certs, and no deac prrof mark either.

    Can anyone help with what to do next?
  2. He should be able to contact the Birmingham Proof House and enquire about a deac certificate as they do most deactivations in this country if not all of them. They may want to inspect the weapon however, which if they are not happy with it, may result in it being confiscated though.

    Bearing in mind im no expert, hope this helps.
  3. I'm not sure that Firearms Laws and Proof Rules even mention foreign de-acts (foreign proofed firearms are recognised).

    If the rifle matches UK "old spec" de-act standard, then probably no-one would even be able to tell it was done outside of UK, and it technically wouldn't need a certificate - as with old spec de-acts.

    If any of the pressure-bearing parts are not cut and/or the barrel is not blocked or pinned, then it probably would not pass de-act criteria and probably ought to go back to an RFD to be re-cut and then Proofed/certified under the "new" specification.
  4. The law on deacts is actually quite simple. In order to benefit from the 1998 Act, a firearm MUST be deactivated to the UK Spec. AND Certified as such by one the the two Proof Houses. If that is not the case then one takes one's chance in Court. This is in the Primary Legislation - no ifs, buts or maybes.
  5. 2 probs: 1, the law was not retroactive, and 2, the UK is a signatory to CIP and thus must recognise foreign CIP deactivation proof marks. This international treaty is above UK law, just as in my line of work the UK must (and does) bend to the Patent Cooperation Treaty and European Patent Convention where they conflict with UK IP law.
  6. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    I have seen certified deacts in Germany where the bolt head alone was ground off at an angle. no welding either. They treated the WW2 stuff as pretty much not interested unless it was full auto!
  7. Thanks for the responses guys.

    to give an indication of the butchering,
    steel(?) pins, one approx 1cm into breech (before CofR), longitudinal slot approx 5cm long, 2/3rds along barrel, approx 1cm wide, another pin approx 3 cm in front of that.

    no apparent grinding on bolt face, no FPP.

    Thats it,

    cannot seem to find a german deac proof anywhere online, will have to wait and see, he is off on ex soon so hope to have something sorted soonish!
  8. Sounds like the pre-1991 (IIRC) specification for bolt actions; I'm pretty sure the barrel was just pinned and the firing pin shortened. Don't quote me on that though.
  9. The process for deactivation is actually quite simple. The work can be carried out by anyone, but in order for the weapon to be classified under uk legislation as a deactivated weapon, it needs to be inspected and proofed by a uk proof house which will inspect the work completed, stamp the weapon and issue the certificate. In order for the weapon to meet the requirements, firstly, the actions MUST be welded in a way as to prevent further works from reinstating it. Once the major components have either been removed or cut away, the weapon can be stamped. When this is completed, it can then be inspected to ensure it meets the required criteria. If the possesor is not a firearm certificate holder, the weapon must be legaly stored by someone who is prior to the works and proofing. When this is complete, the holder can posses and display the weapon as long as they are in possession of the deativated certificate.

    You can pm me for further details if needed
  10. 1. Not sure what you mean by that. Prior to the act there was no specification and so you took your chance in court.

    2. But (and it is big one) in the case of deactivation, I can't find any evidence that it has been put into primary/secondary legislation (like the European Firearms Pass has been for example) and so, in my opinion, you take your chance in court, claiming exemption based on the convention. You could find yourself going to the European Court of Justice.