Republicans lives under threat

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Nehustan, Nov 15, 2005.

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  1. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4440668.stm

    [align=justify]Just wondered about people's thought's on this. Having a been brought up with a Protestant (and I do still like protestation!!) right foot which I like to cross over my Roman left foot, I have often wondered what I might have done had I been born in Ulster. I think for me in my consideration of people of a republican nature my line of enquiry would have been thus,

    'Is your loyalty to Dublin and Ireland or Rome?'[/align]


    Any thoughts???

    [align=justify](P.S. As a subnote to any Loyalists it may be considered that what is commonly known as the cross of St. George (temple cross to those who know better) is actually more Roman than the saltire of St. Patrick, and in fact upon the Union flag it is this very cross which divides the saltires of Ireland and Scotland, which may lead Irishmen to say 'Quis Separabit?)[/align]
     
  2. Interesting issue you have highlighted here Nehustan.

    I would argue that Northern (or 'Southern') Republicans are not loyal to Dublin, Ireland or Rome, for the following reasons.

    Firstly, Sinn Féin, despite sitting in the Dáil, does not accept the legitimacy of the Republic of Ireland (it accepts the state's existence as a matter of fact, but not its legitimacy).

    Secondly, it is a common misconception that Republicanism = Catholicsm. Certainly, back in the 19th century and into the early years of the 20th, this argument held some validity, but this is no longer the case. Despite the presence of priests at numerous well-covered Republican funerals over the years, and the well-worn image of the 'IRA priest' and fellow-traveller, Sinn Féin/PIRA have always regarded the Catholic Church with varying degrees of hostility. This goes back to the time when the Church regularly and consistently condemned various Republican groups such as the Fenians, the Invincibles, and the IRB for the fact that they were oath-bound secret societies, violent, and revolutionary. Specifically after the Irish Civil War of 1922-3 (in which the Church backed the Free State government) the IRA 'went to the left' politically. Now of course, from that time and up to now there is still the aura of Catholicism about Republicansim, but this is because the faith is so deeply ingrained in Irish people, and because it lends an air of respectability and legitimacy to 'the Cause'. Quite frankly, if Sinn Féin/PIRA were to ever attain power in the Republic - or on the entire island in the event of unification - they would set about destroying the Church. Anyone with an historical knowledge of Republicanism will recognise that one of the defining characteristics of it is a virulent opposition to religion, as Republicanism regards religion as a threat; Republicanism itself is a secular religion in the same way that Communism and Nazism were (they too regarded religion as a threat).

    Republicans' loyalty to 'Ireland' is a rather abstract and ill-defined thing. Firstly, their image of 'Ireland' differs greatly from that of most people on the island. One must remember that many Republicans equate Irishness, and therefore Ireland, with Republicanism itself. Anything outside of this is therefore regarded as suspect. There is little if any tolerance for any aspect of Irish culture and history that does not fit-in with the Republican 'image'. For peolpe who attach such importance to Irish history, it is ironic that many, if not most Republcians know little of Irish history. True, they will be 'up to speed' on certain aspects of history, but this is a very narrowly-defined and blinkered view of Irish history. There is also a dangerous form of moral and ethical fundamentalism (extremism if you will) which motivates and guides Republicans. Anything - any action, any deed - is acceptable if it is done 'for the Cause'. Therefore, Republicans have fought for and/or collaborated with Imperial Germany, Republican Spain, Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc. The obvious contradictions in these alliances are easily explained by Republicans by the simple expedient of being 'for the Cause'. Therefore, there has never been any problem with the killing of members of an Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces; nor with the robbing of banks in the Republic nor with extortion and drug rackets.

    note - the cross of St. Patrick was the badge of the Blue Shirts; and in my humble opinion, with the addition of the arms of Ireland, would serve as a more fitting national flag (even possibly of a united Ireland? shudder) than the Third Worldesque tricolour.

    gallowglass
    (of an old Ulster Catholic family, at one time Protestant, and with a good dash of Ulster Scots Presbyterian blood - in other words, an Irishman).
     
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  5. maninblack

    maninblack LE Book Reviewer

    I have often wondered why an Irish communist/marxist party managed to gather so much support in the US governing bodies when every other left winger was regarded as beneath contempt or treated as an enemy?
     
  6. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    [align=justify]Very interesting comments, have just read them. I too would like to see the cross of St. Patrick flying over a united Ireland. I guess when we consider the political devolution of Wales and Scotland within the United Kingdom, the Irish were just a little ahead of the game. If more of an ear had been given them and their grievances, maybe the (divisive) division of the British Isles would not have occurred.[/align]
     
  7. Interesting analysis, GG. If a bit pessimistic; there are active and powerful voices in the Irish legislature who have been warning about the rise of this movement for oh, at least a couple of years. I'd be surprised if many more Dail seats went to PSF bums in the near-to-middling future. Their fiscal policies are played down, and rightly so - they're a disaster, and neither the Irish nor Northern Irish constituencies are so suicidal.
     
  8. i have always found the Irish friendly and very welcoming, no extremism amongst them toward me, my English accent would have been very obvious, they actually do NOT want to merge with Northern Ireland, they view NI as another country as almost alien in culture to their own.
    as one said " They are crazy in the North ! "
     
  9. Semper - **** off you durty sasseneach bastard.... :lol:

    Tricam.
     
  10. Sounds like you have a lot of knowlege on this subject Semper.

    Few 'Irish' guys you met were not extremest, so obviously PIRA/CIRA/RIRA/whatever were not extremest.

    Explain helping Nazi Germany, training FARC, ETA..

    Don't talk shit.
     
  11. I think you screwed that up mate - too many negatives. Didn't you mean to say...

    Terrible state of affairs when a bogtrotter has to correct your use of the Queen's english.

    Tricam.

    PS - You misspelt extremist too..
     
  12. Cheers mate, it's too late!

    I ment what I said, Semper met a few Irish guys who were not extremist, therefore thinks the IRA is not extremist.

    Terrible state of affairs when fellow bogtrotters are correcting each other!!
     
  13. of course the CIRA/PIRA/UFF/UVF etc are extremist ! :roll:

    as far as i recall there also Irish females as well, nowhere did i say i think the CIRA/PIRA?RIRA are not extremist , ya daft ha'porth ! , i said Irish by that ORDINARY CIVILIANS ! its almost on par with you saying then that ALL NI citizens are extremist as well ! as is all Irish people !



    you generalise too much ! i suggest you sit down for 5 minute and work out what i am really saying. rather jumping down from 10 feet and mashing up your spelling in your response which indicates you are jumping conclusion in a quick fire response before thinking it through !.

    for the record , i have too found the NI people welcoming as well, most are not interested in the Republican V Loyalist spat ditto for the south.



    jeez ! :lol:
     
  14. You are making a fool out of your self, Semper.

    What has Irish females got to do with anything? Or did you just notice them........

    Who do you mean you you talk about the 'Irish' or 'they'?

    By the way, you don't need a full stop after exclamation marks, you should always start a sentence with a capital letter, the phrase 'I have too found" does not make sense, you should of said "5 minutes" not "5 minute", you should use a capital I when referring you yourself and you should not talk shit.
     
  15. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    If you are going to call people fools and correct their English, it is generally wise to ensure that your own use of the language is beyond reproach.

    You wrote 'should of said' instead of 'should have said'. For one who comments upon someone else's punctuation, you seem to know very little; your sentence is too long, and has too many commas. Go and look up run-on sentences in your grammar textbook. If you do this again I shall give you lines.