Reprieve UK: Danny Fitzsimons and Joshua French

#3
About Reprieve said:
We promote the rule of law around the world, and secure each person’s right to a fair trial. And in doing so, we save lives.
Just out of curiosity, what if the law of the land in question clearly establishes a provision for the death penalty and a fair trial finds the accused guilty of a capital crime? How does that square with "saving lives" IYO?

I'm always interested in knowing who's asking me to climb in bed with them.
 
#4
Both sub judice so can't really comment on whether they are guilty or not. Is Reprive's gripe that they are facing the death penalty or that they are innocent? Like tawahi not much to add. Being an ex-soldier shouldn't give you a Get Out of Jail Free card for future crimes.

whf
 
#5
Edited. Tut-tut PG :)

Whilst I wouldn't expect anyone here to comment specifically on the cases , what with all the journos circling like hawks, it could lead to an interesting debate?
 
#6
PartTimePongo said:
Edited. Tut-tut PG :)

Whilst I wouldn't expect anyone here to comment specifically on the cases , what with all the journos circling like hawks, it could lead to an interesting debate?
I've rarely seen two cases more dissimilar, in every detail. The only connecting factor is that they were both in the Army at one time in their lives and in one case that has absolutely no relevance whatsoever.
 
#7
Not after quotes, I just hadn't seen these cases mentioned so far. If this how you react when someone is trying to be helpful I'd hate to be around when they piss you off. Thanks for the welcome...
 
#8
Toughen up Princess, it's a military-orientated forum, and the responses are likely to be robust. So pick your dummy up , and contribute your feelings on this?
 
#9
I got into a slinger with someone on here about Danny, it wasnt about me defending him, I wouldnt f*cking dream of attempting to justify what he did especially not after spending nights hammered myself, tanked up on spirits in both countries whilst armed, it was more about waiting out until the details had come through, its evident he has done a naughty now its all a bit more clear.

I dont think he should swing for murdering the 2 guys (Im not even biased to the fact one was ex Royal), he wouldnt swing here if it had been in a bar in Hounslow, therefore he shouldnt swing just because the shaky and notoriously corrupt legal system of a country that is barely on its knees never mind its feet says he should, which for me would be in defference to its legal system wanting to exact even more pressure and impact on operators than it already has.

I honestly dont know whether he should come home, my personal jury is out on that, it would be pretty unpalatable to think that he could spend 16/17 years in nick pretty languidly then pick up his life again. The thought of him lasting more than a year in an Iraqi nick is also questionable, without 24 hour seg he would be meat, simple as..Its a no win for old Danny boy at the minute and for me its the trickiest thing Ive had in recent times to think about and consider.
 
#10
"…Reprieve’s current casework involves representing 33 prisoners in the US prison at Guantánamo Bay, working on behalf of prisoners facing the death penalty, and conducting ongoing investigations into the rendition and the secret detention of ‘ghost prisoners’ in the so-called ‘war on terror.’…"

Ah, so you take on the cases of terrorists too…

Okele dokely. :roll:
 
#11
Are they terrorists? Has there been a trial to determine they are already then?

Why not think before opening your maw Oil Slick?

Reni. Blinding post. Thank you.
 
#12
PartTimePongo said:
Are they terrorists? Has there been a trial to determine they are already then?

Why not think before opening your maw Oil Slick?

Reni. Blinding post. Thank you.

Yeah, sure, they were all 'tourists' on sightseeing trips in Afghanistan with TaliTours like our old friend Binyamin Muhammed… :roll:
 
#13
Has there been a trial where they have been pronounced guilty of terrorist acts or not.
 
#14
PartTimePongo said:
Has there been a trial where they have been pronounced guilty of terrorist acts or not.

Couldn't much care if there has been or not, you get picked up on the battlefield in the other lots camps you're guilty in my books…

Or do you really buy Binyamin Mo's story he was just on a sightseeing trip?
 
#15
Reni, I take on board what you say about him not swinging here.... But

He isn't here, and the crime wasn't committed here. If I murder someone in various states of the US I will be gassed, electrocuted, shot by firing squad of injected with a cocktail of death. Why should Iraq be any different. After all we have pulled out so we must be relatively happy that law and order is in place otherwise we've left a job half done.

He was happy to take the high wages for working in harsh surroundings, now the the law of that land has been broken, and if he is proven guilty then he abides by the sentence of that law.

If he can't take the heat etc.......
 
#16
That Binyam c*nt is having a laugh, I believe, truly that his ideology was manifesting slowly, he was definately pushing toward causing bother, in my book intent is enough to warrant a bit of pokey and a 'f*ck off and grow up' speech after..Saying that, open my passport and Ive touched down in 5 of the more iffy spots flagged up in the last 5 years, sometimes for a month at a time, once for considerably longer with little or no business being there in 2 cases, how does it look on me ?

(I also run an Islamic bookstore)
 
#17
reni_77 said:
I honestly dont know whether he should come home, my personal jury is out on that, it would be pretty unpalatable to think that he could spend 16/17 years in nick pretty languidly then pick up his life again. The thought of him lasting more than a year in an Iraqi nick is also questionable, without 24 hour seg he would be meat, simple as..Its a no win for old Danny boy at the minute and for me its the trickiest thing Ive had in recent times to think about and consider.
If he came back home then his PTSD would be given whatever weight the British Judicial System allows, I don't know the law here, but he might be found not guilty due to diminished responsibility and detained whilst his PTSD is sorted or even released entirely to be treated as an outpatient. That might not suit many people at all and is a very difficult scenario especially for those who don't understand what constitutes legal responsibility. To be honest I'm not entirely sure I know myself, logic says that his PTSD may have made him react in a way he wouldn't have because he had lost control over his mind but the heart says someone died and that surely must be punished.
One of the great problems with the death penalty in general is that you have to be absolutely certain that a person is guilty, all well and good if that is in your own country's courts in which you have complete and utter faith. Take the person to a foreign country that allows politics to enter the courtroom, has corrupt and vengeful officials and a cavalier attitude towards truth and justice and you can never be quite happy with a death penalty outcome.
If he is ill then treatment has to be the logical solution but should there also be an element of punishment as well, just because certain actions should not go unpunished?
 
#18
reni_77 said:
That Binyam c*nt is having a laugh, I believe, truly that his ideology was manifesting slowly, he was definately pushing toward causing bother, in my book intent is enough to warrant a bit of pokey and a 'f*ck off and grow up' speech after..Saying that, open my passport and Ive touched down in 5 of the more iffy spots flagged up in the last 5 years, sometimes for a month at a time, once for considerably longer with little or no business being there in 2 cases, how does it look on me ?

(I also run an Islamic bookstore)

Yes, but I doubt you were sitting round having tea and stickies with Achmed Al Jihaddi and his mates… subtle but oh so important difference.

And yes, he is having a laugh, but its going to be a hugely expensive laugh at our expense. Still, they've learned and adapted now, SOP seems to be to crack your nut on the nearest solid object when captured and claim 'Bad man, he is hit me and infringed my yuman rights' and save all the bother of doing the suing later.
 
#19
Porridge_gun said:
Reni, I take on board what you say about him not swinging here.... But

He isn't here, and the crime wasn't committed here. If I murder someone in various states of the US I will be gassed, electrocuted, shot by firing squad of injected with a cocktail of death. Why should Iraq be any different. After all we have pulled out so we must be relatively happy that law and order is in place otherwise we've left a job half done.

He was happy to take the high wages for working in harsh surroundings, now the the law of that land has been broken, and if he is proven guilty then he abides by the sentence of that law.

If he can't take the heat etc.......
Certainly, its pragmatic reasoning like that which makes it difficult, in the absence of every single contributing factor Ill give my brain ache a rest but its cut and dry, he either gets home via organisations such as this, or even with a life tag in an Iraqi nick with 24 hour seg, he wont see out the year, either by his own hand or others, points taken and digested, be interesting to see what arises and the eventual outcome, Ive a pound on him swinging to be honest, Ive also a pound on it happening again..Its also not an unrealistic (and completely unrelated) possibility that contractors can and will be prosecuted and dealt with by Iraqi Authorities 'post' contact if they havent hightailed it back to safety and not hung around for the IP to mop up
 
#20
reni_77 said:
That Binyam c*nt is having a laugh, I believe, truly that his ideology was manifesting slowly, he was definately pushing toward causing bother, in my book intent is enough to warrant a bit of pokey and a 'f*ck off and grow up' speech after..Saying that, open my passport and Ive touched down in 5 of the more iffy spots flagged up in the last 5 years, sometimes for a month at a time, once for considerably longer with little or no business being there in 2 cases, how does it look on me ?

(I also run an Islamic bookstore)
Isn't there enough evidence in what you've just said to, at least, bring him to trial? Keeping men locked up for years without a trial of any sort is hardly the answer surely?
 

Similar threads

New Posts

Latest Threads