Replacement AWACS

How feasible is it that Sentry can limp along for another 10 15 yrs** until the US adopts son of Sentry and the UK can tag onto that.


** admittedly becoming increasingly obsolescent / obsolete - but is that any different to shack soldiering on until Sentry arrived
Immediate layman’s response? Just think how irrelevant we’ll become.

Once again, this whole episode underlines how ill-informed our politicians wilfully choose to be. AWACS? Not shiny, pointy or sexy. But damn-well essential.
 
How feasible is it that Sentry can limp along for another 10 15 yrs** until the US adopts son of Sentry and the UK can tag onto that.


** admittedly becoming increasingly obsolescent / obsolete - but is that any different to shack soldiering on until Sentry arrived
It’s not feasible without a whole series of aircraft, cockpit and mission system upgrades and we live in a very different age to when we had the Shacks struggling on.

Moreover, I wouldn’t expect to see the USAF replacing their AWACS until 2035 at the earliest.

Regards,
MM
 
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Immediate layman’s response? Just think how irrelevant we’ll become.

Once again, this whole episode underlines how ill-informed our politicians wilfully choose to be. AWACS? Not shiny, pointy or sexy. But damn-well essential.
Generally agreed

On the other hand if its not going to be dealing with peer airforces and capabilities - eg it will be monitoring Afghanistan - Russian bears over Brazil or refugees in the med etc - then providing the hardware can last x years then if the capability will be adequate for envisaged tasks can the it'll do until funding's better risk be taken.
Im not advocating it, just a line of thought (probably running through the treasury as we type)

Edit MMs post and this crossed in the ether and was as ever bang on the nose - Not feasible - as opposed to a bad idea, or a calculated risk

So No it cant limp on.
 
...On the other hand if its not going to be dealing with peer airforces and capabilities - eg it will be monitoring Afghanistan - Russian bears over Brazil or refugees in the med etc - then providing the hardware can last x years then if the capability will be adequate for envisaged tasks can the it'll do until funding's better risk be taken...
I’m afraid that it’s EXACTLY such fundamentally flawed assumptions that’s got us where we are today.

Over Syria, and when operating in the Baltic, we routinely face Russian Su-57s, Su-35s, Tu-160s, Tu-22M2s, cruise missiles, and an IADS which includes S400s, S300s, SA-15s and 2S6.

Regards,
MM
 
I reckon we should either:

a) PFI domed-up Voyagers, which could be de-domed and leased to Jet2 when it gets busy on the Magaluf front... at enormous expense to the taxpayer; which can then be re-kitted and given back to Crab Air when it gets cheeky on the Baltic front... at enormous expense to the taxpayer.

b) Stretch, re-engine and re-kit the Sentries as 'Wedgetail Plus'... at enormous expense etc. Then leave them covered in spraylat on the fire dump at Waddo for several years before scrapping them in favour of...

c) Wedgetails.
 
I’m afraid that it’s EXACTLY such fundamentally flawed assumptions that’s got us where we are today.

Over Syria, and when operating in the Baltic, we potentially face Russian Su-57s, Su-35s, Tu-160s, Tu-22M2s, cruise missiles, and an IADS which includes S400s, S300s, SA-15s and 2S6.

Regards,
MM
Not quite, MM. While on Air Policing missions Russian platforms and weapon systems are routinely detected, we don't 'face' those capabilities in a target/threat scenario. That said, your first sentence is bang on the money.
 
Not quite, MM. While on Air Policing missions Russian platforms and weapon systems are routinely detected, we don't 'face' those capabilities in a target/threat scenario. That said, your first sentence is bang on the money.
Agreed to an extent.

However, we still have to be able to meet the threat of their use and the activity over Syria in particular is the most complex battle space we’ve arguably faced since WWII. Western, Russian and Syrian fast jets routinely 'engage' in all but name with activity that involves some very sporty maneuvering.

The Russians would love to see a Western 'miscalculation' and Air C2 is fundamental to assuring the SA needed to avoid that danger.

Regards,
MM
 
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I reckon we should either:

a) PFI domed-up Voyagers, which could be de-domed and leased to Jet2 when it gets busy on the Magaluf front... at enormous expense to the taxpayer; which can then be re-kitted and given back to Crab Air when it gets cheeky on the Baltic front... at enormous expense to the taxpayer.

b) Stretch, re-engine and re-kit the Sentries as 'Wedgetail Plus'... at enormous expense etc. Then leave them covered in spraylat on the fire dump at Waddo for several years before scrapping them in favour of...

c) Wedgetails.
Hi
My name is Derek Trotter from BAe Systems. We can do all that you ask, and we'll do it for 296 aircraft,all for £3.99 per jet (pricing flexible!!)

Call us on 1-800-SPIVVY-W@NKER5 to discuss more. Calls may be charged at £93mil per minute.
 
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I’m afraid that it’s EXACTLY such fundamentally flawed assumptions that’s got us where we are today.
I dont doubt that for a minute - I was just envisaging the logical extension of that assumption until X arrives.

As you've said though not feasible - so perhaps a treasury inspired its ok for now bullet dodged there


Edit
For clariyu im not disagreeing with you - just in case my post is less than clear
 
Without a robust AWACS capability, you’re little league, and after all the previous ‘we can rebuild it, better, cheaper, stronger’ fiascos, there is zero interest in. DIY fix’s

So, it’s run the E-3’s to obsolescent and bow out, or buy OTS. And as we’re buying a militarised 737 variant already, and have set up a regional support hub for military 737 variants, the only sensible game in the big boys town is the E-7, which has been heavily invested in to better support F-35 operations.
 
Well, who makes AWACs type thingmajigs that can do what a Sentry can do in the west ?
Only the Yanks and the Israelis with their G550.
The latter, while very good kit, is about a likely a buy as a haemorrhoid transplant which leaves the Yanks.
If it comes to something as good as Sentry, that's in the air now, that's US made, then theres only one supplier and thats Boeing.
What competitive process can there be, ffs ?
 
Well, who makes AWACs type thingmajigs that can do what a Sentry can do in the west ?
Only the Yanks and the Israelis with their G550...
Saab and Airbus would beg to differ.

Moreover, each company will dangle commercial and employment factors under the nose of politicians and lobby them very hard indeed. Just read the comments section on the link; there are still those out there that believe we should buy British!

Regards,
MM
 
Well, who makes AWACs type thingmajigs that can do what a Sentry can do in the west ?
Only the Yanks and the Israelis with their G550.
The latter, while very good kit, is about a likely a buy as a haemorrhoid transplant which leaves the Yanks.
If it comes to something as good as Sentry, that's in the air now, that's US made, then theres only one supplier and thats Boeing.
What competitive process can there be, ffs ?
Process must be seen to be done... frustrating, isn't it?
 
Process must be seen to be done... frustrating, isn't it?
Find a really strong justification for going single source to Boeing then. Something like this might work:

"On the basis of the unit prices quoted to MOD to provide this capability, the Boeing Chief Exec and entire senior management team have confirmed their spouses and children will have to be be handed over to pimps, in order to allow them to satisfy basic living requirements. More junior staff are not expected to eat for several years after contract award. Oh, and our aircraft will be far better than anything France can get."

At least that might open the door to a discussion. Otherwise expect a competition in some form, and just hope Abbey Wood has got better at this shit than past experience suggests.
 
Saab and Airbus would beg to differ.

Moreover, each company will dangle commercial and employment factors under the nose of politicians and lobby them very hard indeed. Just read the comments section on the link; there are still those out there that believe we should buy British!

Regards,
MM
Would the Japanese not wish to have been invited to this party?
 

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