Replacement Aircraft

NZ Government has just announced today that they are purchasing a new fleet of aircraft to replace the existing fleet of 1960s era Hercules with a new fleet of Hercules C130J.
Starting from 2020.
 
It surprises me that, given the general configuration, performance and number of variants, there's never(?) been a flying boat version and, had such been successful, an amphibian version.

Still, it's only been going 60 odd years so perhaps it's something to consider in the future.
 
It surprises me that, given the general configuration, performance and number of variants, there's never(?) been a flying boat version and, had such been successful, an amphibian version.

Still, it's only been going 60 odd years so perhaps it's something to consider in the future.
It has been looked at. There was a project know as 'Hercules on Water' in the 60s and in the early 70s there was a model crafted by Lockheed to show off an amphibious C-130. It looked a little like the result of an illicit liaison between a Herc and a Grumman HU-16 Albatross...
 
D

Deleted 60082

Guest
I see that most of the debate about the new proposal is that the C130 can’t carry the NH90s. Still no talk of reconstituting a combat air capability; I doubt they ever will...
 
On paper, the A400M was ideal for RNZAF requirements; long range with the ability to get to Antarctica with a moderate payload; ability to swallow at least 2 x NH90; decent short/rough field capability.

Then they visited Brize and saw it!!!

...Still no talk of reconstituting a combat air capability; I doubt they ever will...
Their T-6Cs are wired for weapons and it’s possible their RPAS will be armed when procured. But I can’t see them ever buying fast jets again.

Regards,
MM
 
D

Deleted 60082

Guest
On paper, the A400M was ideal for RNZAF requirements; long range with the ability to get to Antarctica with a moderate payload; ability to swallow at least 2 x NH90; decent short/rough field capability.

Then they visited Brize and saw it!!!



Their T-6Cs are wired for weapons and it’s possible their RPAS will be armed when procured. But I can’t see them ever buying fast jets again.

Regards,
MM
Fitted for but not with! They were also keen on the Embraer but the local rep was a bit of a cøck and ruined the relationship. But pleased they’re going again for the C130 and the P8. And they’re doing some interesting stuff with Leonardo with their light twins.
 
Fitted for but not with! They were also keen on the Embraer but the local rep was a bit of a cøck and ruined the relationship. But pleased they’re going again for the C130 and the P8. And they’re doing some interesting stuff with Leonardo with their light twins.
Interesting; the KC-390 was said by RNZAF C-130 guys to have been favourite a year ago.

Regards,
MM
 
I see that most of the debate about the new proposal is that the C130 can’t carry the NH90s. Still no talk of reconstituting a combat air capability; I doubt they ever will...
The US are perfectly correct in calling out the passengers in nato not pulling their weight. One wonders if the same would be applied to the Pacific ?
 
D

Deleted 60082

Guest
The US are perfectly correct in calling out the passengers in nato not pulling their weight. One wonders if the same would be applied to the Pacific ?
New Zealand was pushed out of the ANZUS alliance in 1984/5 because of the Labour Government's anti-nuclear policies, however, the forces do work together extremely closely these days. I don't know of any pressure on NZG to up arm the RNZAF; I am sure that the DoD and State Department are more than content with the Kiwis getting the P8 and increasing the ISR capability in other areas.
 

gafkiwi

War Hero
I see that most of the debate about the new proposal is that the C130 can’t carry the NH90s. Still no talk of reconstituting a combat air capability; I doubt they ever will...
The C-130J is a good fit and NZ can't really justify anything larger. For such a small Defence Force and its regional needs, sea lift via the Navy would take care of the the majority of movement of Helo's etc. Any further afar it would be via coalition support or charter aircraft as have been done with the LAV III's.

A key requirement to any major new kit the NZDF gets now is that its in-service and proven with any of the Five Eyes nations. You don't want to be the only regional user or coalition partner with a particular bit of key equipment. Being the KC-390 and K1 are new platforms with limited use (none with the Five eyes nations) being able to do the Kessel run in 12 parsecs still probably wouldn't have been enough.
 
D

Deleted 60082

Guest
The C-130J is a good fit and NZ can't really justify anything larger. For such a small Defence Force and its regional needs, sea lift via the Navy would take care of the the majority of movement of Helo's etc. Any further afar it would be via coalition support or charter aircraft as have been done with the LAV III's.

A key requirement to any major new kit the NZDF gets now is that its in-service and proven with any of the Five Eyes nations. You don't want to be the only regional user or coalition partner with a particular bit of key equipment. Being the KC-390 and K1 are new platforms with limited use (none with the Five eyes nations) being able to do the Kessel run in 12 parsecs still probably wouldn't have been enough.
I fully support both acquisitions; the C130J is a known quantity; the A400M would have been good, except that it is a massively under-performing platform, regretfully.
 

gafkiwi

War Hero
I fully support both acquisitions; the C130J is a known quantity; the A400M would have been good, except that it is a massively under-performing platform, regretfully.
Same here, I believe the same should have been applied to the UH-1H replacement.
 
New Zealand was pushed out of the ANZUS alliance in 1984/5 because of the Labour Government's anti-nuclear policies, however, the forces do work together extremely closely these days. I don't know of any pressure on NZG to up arm the RNZAF; I am sure that the DoD and State Department are more than content with the Kiwis getting the P8 and increasing the ISR capability in other areas.
Don't get me wrong, i think it perfectly rational the shutting down of expensive parts of defence. The rundown of our armoured programme for instance, where its really not needed given present commitments and threat, given the distances involved for us here to Russia and the US Pacific Command that insulates NZ from China. I suppose to justify a system, its one of imagination.

You have to determine if a threat suddenly manifested itself, do you have the capabilities to expand or generate something workable. The Australians for instance had developed the Wirraway prior to WW2 as a stopgap in the event of conflict. I can see the NZ have done some minimal work, but you think they would retain some basic capability of a CAP or escort for those P8s.
 

gafkiwi

War Hero
. I can see the NZ have done some minimal work, but you think they would retain some basic capability of a CAP or escort for those P8s.
Domestically there is little point to a CAP/escort when anyone who has the capability bypass or mitigate Australia and the ADF would have no issues with a sqn or so of NZ based fighters.
Don't get me wrong, I think we should have an Air combat capability but it should be based where it has purpose and justifies the expense. As in the past i.e. A Sqn based in Australia integrated into defence agreement there with the ability to deploy a flight forward in support of International interests/deployments. With an NZ based flight to provide depth, training and support to Army/Navy outputs.
 
Domestically there is little point to a CAP/escort when anyone who has the capability bypass or mitigate Australia and the ADF would have no issues with a sqn or so of NZ based fighters.
Don't get me wrong, I think we should have an Air combat capability but it should be based where it has purpose and justifies the expense. As in the past i.e. A Sqn based in Australia integrated into defence agreement there with the ability to deploy a flight forward in support of International interests/deployments. With an NZ based flight to provide depth, training and support to Army/Navy outputs.
I get why the NZAF have no air combat capability, anyone with a map can see the reason why... My salient point was what you could call the unthinkable scenarios..... I have argued on other threads, that the idea of coalition warfare or relying on allies is all well and good, admirable dare I say, until they are unavailable, busy or already under pressure i.e. a few fighters available over a capital city in an emergency.
 

Latest Threads

Top