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Replace the SA80 petition

#2
no_mr_kitty said:
Sorry if this post is in the wrong place.
Yes, it is in the wrong place: It's in a place where professional soldiers hang out!

to the hole please!!

May I suggest you search out the many threads about weapons on this site before you spout off about what you want to be armed with when you do get in.
When you do get to handle weapons for real, you will become familiar with the phrase "watch and Shoot!" - at this time you should stick to "Watch and Learn!"
 
B

BambiBasher

Guest
#4
osta said:
Here we go again, pages and pages of shite about how great the SLR used to be.

To the hole please..............
The Army's never been the same since they did away with the Browm Bess.
 
#5
After some thought I have concluded that I owe no_Mr_Kitty an apology. My reply was rather “old School”. Short and sharp and without the guidance that a youngster deserves today.
I believe that a more modern approach would help; breaking down the petition's points and asking that each point be researched and answered.





More details from petition creator
The SA80 (Small Arms for the 1980s) is currently used by most of the British Army.
The gun is old, heavy and stoppages are frequent. Please replace it with something suitable for the modern battlefield.


“The gun is old”
A short paragraph on what the definition of “Old” refers to in small arms. Please refer to the US army adoption of the M240 and the Bundeswer's use of the MG3. You may, if you wish, also refer to the British Army's L9A1, L7A2 and L2A1.
“The Gun is heavy”
What can I say – Google it! But understand the answer will always be a compromise and the fact that a weapon system might be a few pounds lighter is neither here nor there. This isn't a game of Top Trumps!

“and stoppages are frequent”
really? Do you think? I suggest you are listening to some anecdotal stories and taking them as gospel. Please provide a link to some detailed studies about the performance of the modern combat weapon systems used by “top Flight” armies.

Now after all that, do you think I believe the L85A2 is the absolute bestest system in the world and money won't buy you any better? Hell no! But I really do believe it's a good honest weapon that is doing the job.

Look forward to you telling me this was a Wah!

Please, please don't let this be a wah!
 
#7
When I go into combat I'd be happy to carry the SA80A2. It rapes the M16A2 at any test you'd care to name apart from allyness.

The rifle is not unduly heavy (4.6kg; if that's a problem grow some arm muscles), does not stop excessively (apart from once every thirty rounds obviously) and as for old, some of it is brand new. And when has old necessarily been a disadvantage?

The SLR was unduly heavy, stopped too often (as the mag was too small) and was fairly old. Now we have something far better.
 
#9
Bring back the longbow - light, simple and effective at up to 300 metres (if you have 6,000 angry Welshmen at your disposal).

The A1 was a bad weapon, but every nation's army whinges about its rifles and the A2 is up there with the better ones.
 
#10
Bat_Crab said:
Bring back the longbow - light, simple and effective at up to 300 metres (if you have 6,000 angry Welshmen at your disposal).

The A1 was a bad weapon, but every nation's army whinges about its rifles and the A2 is up there with the better ones.
Only if the soldier in charge of it was lazy/idle/a mong/RAF-regt/a spacker etc
 
#11
[quote="smudge67]

Only if the soldier in charge of it was lazy/idle/a mong/RAF-regt/a spacker etc[/quote]

My fault for listening to the Rock Apes too much.
 
#13
no_mr_kitty said:
I am not a solider (yet), but I if I ever go into combat I want a gun that's better than the SA80.
So you want something that youve never fired to be replaced with something else that youve never fired?

Please tell me which rifle (its not a gun, (wikki) In military use, the term "gun" refers to artillery ordnance that fires projectiles at high velocity, such as naval guns which in the modern navies are not called cannons, or the tank main gun. In military use, mortars and all hand-held firearms are excluded from the definition of guns because they do not require the accurate gunnery data calculations and training when engaging targets.[3] Two exceptions to this include: the shotgun, which is a smoothbore hand-held firearm that fires a load of shot or a single projectile known as a slug, and the machine gun, which is a fully-automatic weapon mounted on a tripod or wheeled carriage and is almost always operated by a crew of two.) you would prefer in stead of the rifle 5.56.
 
#16
Bravo_Zulu said:
When I go into combat I'd be happy to carry the SA80A2. It rapes the M16A2 at any test you'd care to name apart from allyness.
Agreed, if you ever had the chance to read the report from Ex NERINE, the trial of the A2 against various other weapons in direct comparisons, you would not be in any doubt. They took the A2, plus its competitors, including the M16A2 and the AK together with a tri-service group of non-believers into the desert and bent over backwards to answer all their complaints, including burying the weapons in sand overnight and then firing them again in the morning. After the trial, only one of the doubters didn't agree that the SA80 performed better than any of the others and was twice as reliable as the M16.

smudge67 said:
Bat_Crab said:
The A1 was a bad weapon, but every nation's army whinges about its rifles and the A2 is up there with the better ones.
Only if the soldier in charge of it was lazy/idle/a mong/RAF-regt/a spacker etc
And this was a huge part of the problem. I still have trouble believing that a professional unit would go so far as to treat its equipment (the rifle and its ancillaries) deliberately badly, while on operations against the Taliban, in order to try to persuade their service that they ought to have the M16 instead. However, the evidence (storing op ammo in a sandbag flung into the back of a landrover, deliberately not using oil in spite of the expert advice) would seem to indicate exactly that.

BD6
 
#17
Filbert Fox said:
no_mr_kitty said:
I am not a solider (yet), but I if I ever go into combat I want a gun that's better than the SA80.
So you want something that youve never fired to be replaced with something else that youve never fired?

Please tell me which rifle (its not a gun, (wikki) In military use, the term "gun" refers to artillery ordnance that fires projectiles at high velocity, such as naval guns which in the modern navies are not called cannons, or the tank main gun. In military use, mortars and all hand-held firearms are excluded from the definition of guns because they do not require the accurate gunnery data calculations and training when engaging targets.[3] Two exceptions to this include: the shotgun, which is a smoothbore hand-held firearm that fires a load of shot or a single projectile known as a slug, and the machine gun, which is a fully-automatic weapon mounted on a tripod or wheeled carriage and is almost always operated by a crew of two.) you would prefer in stead of the rifle 5.56.
Just me being pedantic, but the GPMG and LMG are both bipod-mounted, man-portable and in the case of the LMG operated by a lone gunner, yet are both acceptably referred to as guns. Mortars do require calculations when engaging targets, albeit not of the same complexity as artillery or naval guns. Otherwise of course you are correct :lol:
 

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