Remove Link Between Bounty and MATTS ?

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by redfibee, Dec 2, 2010.

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  1. We were told by an Employment Tribunal in 1997 that the TA Bounty is viewed as the TA Pension by the MOD.

    We train for at least 27 days a year, yet the MATTs only take up a maximum of 2.

    The MATTs are not a test of efficiency. In my Unit I pick up a weapon once a year to do the MATTs, I watch a presentatation about LOAC, or V & S, and work my way through the First Aid booklet - and I do a gentle run or a CFT. So we are tested once a year on something that we are only trained on during the MATTs weekend. No way do I consider myself truely efficient at any of this - how can I be with the level of training I receive?

    Our real efficiency depends upon our effectiveness in our particular trade. A more accurate representation of efficiency is probably the SJAR/OJAR.

    I'm not saying we shouldn't do MATTs, far from it - but there's no way that they should continue to used to evaluate us for our Certificates of Efficiency, and therefore our Pension (sorry, Bounty).

    2 people (not me!) in my Unit lost out on their TA Pensions (ie Bounties) last year, because they were not available for the one and only weekend that we were offered the opportunity to do our MATTs. One was seriously ill, and the other was on holiday (booked before the MATT w/e dates were changed). Both of them performed their own trade well during the year.
  2. So because your unit doesn't carry out the MATTS and test you properly then you want paying anyway?
  3. If you cant pass MATTS tests you cant be deployed, if you cant be deployed your not capable of doing your job as a soldier no matter how good your are at your trade. These tests are there to test all soldiers on basic fitness and weapon drills. Just get on with it unless you want to be viewed as a bounty hunter.

    If you miss the only MATTS weekend tough shit really, wait till next year. I might of got the wrong end of the stick but my view is if you can't Pass your MATTS no bounty.
  4. In a nutshell, yes. The Regs / NRPS are in exactly the same boat, but no-one suggests that they should lose a year of their pension because of it.

    Now there's a cost saving idea...!
  5. True.

    So you're missing MATTS 4, 5 & 8, one of either 6 or 7 and half of 2? So you shouldn't qualify for bounty at all?

    We do MATTs twice a year (one for bounty, the other to remain deployable), taking 4 days each time. If you can't deploy, how can you consider yourself "efficient"?
  6. Nail on the head.

    Also missing MATT 9 CIED
  7. MATTS are a good way of keeping ''up to speed'', and yes, no MATTS, no bounty. basic tests. its up yo YOU to keep concurant and FFR.
  8. Only doing 27 days a year and half arsing the MATTS and still getting your bounty. I would shut up and get on with it. I bet the evil gits will want you to pass some of the tests to get your money.
  9. I think you have the wrong idea about all this works mate. The Regs/NRPS are there all the time, it is incumbent on them and their professionalism to ensure they are up to date with what needs to be done. You have other non military things going on so aren't at this all day. I think your unit is at fault here and it should be taken up with them, they should, within reason, provide you the opportunity to complete the MATTS (they also can t be done in a weekend)! Before you rant about regs and old duffers etc i have served with the TA as a PSI and have been a Regtl Trg officer so i know the whys and wherefores of MATTS and the complexity of delivering them effectively. Take it up with your CoC, as they aren't doing their job properly matey but don't expect the rules to change because of this. (By the way i reckon if they told you MATTS was going to take up to 6 trg weekends to complete properly then you wouldnt be happy and would complain about that too)! Rules are rules.....................
  10. TA are casual labour and have no rights to anything. The current TACOS, in my view, suit the majority of the TA. They can turn up, or not, when they choose, and receive a tax free lump sum in return for a minimum committment. If someone can't fulfil that committment within a period of 12 months, tough , no bounty. What is unreasonable or unfair about that?

    If TACOS are changed to bring TA under full remit of employment law, then they will be entitled to pension, annual leave, and realistic DROP etc etc. However the volunteer aspect and bounty will disappear. Attendance and mobilisation will then be a contractual liability. A TA soldier will become a part time regular.

    The current TACOS have faults, but not convinced of the benefits of wholesale changes.
  11. Thats a little unfair, having worked with the TA as a PSI i know that there are lots of them (most in fact) who do far more than expected of them and a lot work for nothing when they have exceeded their training days. But there is a requirement for certain training to receive the bounty and until that changes then they need to complete that to qualify which is fair enough in my book. Dont make comparisons between them and the Regs its totally different and unfair to both sides. The problem here is that the unit in question isnt doing its job properly to ensure the opportunities to qualify are available. One MATTS weekend a year isnt enough and they want their arses kicking, simple really. The boys should consult the CoC and get it sorted.
  12. So we can expect contractor rates then?? Don't think the Army will match Army contractor rates though....

    I agree with Idrach's comments bounty tests and frequency. It would be far more motivating to do them in his unit with the expectation of using them.

    The linking the bounty to pension makes a interesting separate argument though.
  13. A few issues here chaps.

    1. Regs and TA engagements totally different - two armies divided by a common uniform. Let's not waste time trying to draw comparisons - see my umpteen previous threads.

    2. Bounty is not a pension, it is merely often trotted out as a reason for not giving the TA a pension - some wit once suggested that had a TA member put their Bounty into a pension scheme for 20 years, then it would have been worth something. Unfortunately this naive and peurile statement has stuck and now get's taken as 'gospel'. Firstly, it assumes that the individual get's bounty every year, that the individual stays for 20 years, and that the scheme will be worth something - all rather silly.

    3. MATTs. Hmm. Well, the regular Army does them so the TA should as well....see point 1. above. There is nothing wrong in the TA doing MATTs per se but it has to be taken in context - i.e. 27 MTDs p.a. and 'opportunity'. It is unrealistic to only put on one MATT trg day per year - in fact, in the dim and distant past, I seem to recall looking at this before and I think that it states in TA Regs that there should be more than one 'opportunity' per annum to complete mandatory tests. Secondly, redfibee has a point in as much as passing MATTs doesn't mean that you are 'efficient' and with the extent of PDT required these days, it is madness to suggest that MATTs prepares anyone for mobilisation - not so. On that basis therefore, the exam question is whether MATTs is really necessary for the TA - perhaps some form of compromise might be better? (Given the GCM) If MATTs is the extent of the TA 'Offer', then it is no wonder that recruiting is so bad (Yawn).

  14. I'm not sure passing MATTS makes you "efficient" either - and spending 8 MTDs on them is a huge proportion of your available training time. I'd only countanance that if they were built in as part of something else - 8 mile approach march to Ex = CFT, Cas handling on Ex = First Aid etc. Otherwise its a dull as ditchwater retention negative weekend x 4 !!

    But - Matts passes + attendence on specified weekends ( say 6 of 10 options) would be my plan for Bounty. Good old fashioned " Red Star" weekends, so the bounty hunters don't get away with turning out for admin and Remembrance !
  15. When still serving the MS burden had started to increase exponentially and the requirements for my own personal development were also becoming pretty demanding. I asked the TM when I was supposed to fit in all this extra work.

    "In your spare time," he said...