REME TRF Ethos Message

Do we need less beaurocracy and more substance?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ECIs and SHEF Warden visits are my cup of tea!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
#1
I recently noticed something on the wall entitled 'REME TRF Ethos Message'. Now it appears to me to have been written by someone locked out of the real world and stuck in the realms of DEME(A). I gave it a quick perusal and instead of the pride which I imagine was intended, it made me feel quite nauseous. As Homer Simpson once said 'the last time I saw this amount of molten cheese was when I left my Billy Joel LPs in the sun'.

Now I appreciate that we need to have pride in our corps, but this trendy concoction of 'buzz words' and clichés is not the way forward, nor is it substance. We tend to spend so much time talking about how to improve things and creating notices, and goals, and league tables, and METs and some other chart to satisfy another set of objectives which are plainly obvious, which makes me think that those in the top corridors of REME know as much about the coal face as a politician would a council house.

If you want to help those at the bottom of this Christmas tree out, we'd be happy to have an armourer available, maybe a metalsmith too. I'd also like those arriving to have the relevant licences before arrival and it endorsed on their FM/T (this is extremely difficult for some reason; how can a VM pass his driving test on a FV432 and yet be unable to drive one on arrival due to beaurocracy?). BFG tick test before leaving SEAE/SEME? Maybe even trained on Bowman and how to actually speak on it? Familiarised on the likes of GPMG; do we not have lots of soldiers awaiting courses which could be receiving lessons on the military aspects of the REME? MATTs too. Lastly to have attended an equipment course on the kit he/she will be working on arrival.

Now the young tradesman can arrive at his/her unit, smartly dressed with coveralls ironed and twisters in, and instantly be an asset rather than a liability who has a nice civvy qualification and very little else. Our credibility to those in which we support may also be greatly increased. Maybe that would help esprit de corps.

Your thoughts......
 

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#2
I_shat_in_Erics_boots said:
Now the young tradesman can arrive at his/her unit, smartly dressed with coveralls ironed and twisters in, and instantly be an asset rather than a liability who has a nice civvy qualification and very little else. Our credibility to those in which we support may also be greatly increased. Maybe that would help esprit de corps.

Your thoughts......
I look like a bag of shit but my armourers shop gets the only green in the battalion come ECI time. :D

Edit: We have those things pinned up on the wall now, I'll have to get our oil drum/burn bag removal device fired up again. :)
 
#3
Your not looking for much are you?
Would you like them to bring a toolbox to prevent the time wasted signing one out? How about an STD to get rid of that trip to the bag house. Mabey a complete set of AESP's so they can have something to read for the journey to the unit
 
#4
CraftyJay said:
Your not looking for much are you?
Would you like them to bring a toolbox to prevent the time wasted signing one out? How about an STD to get rid of that trip to the bag house. Mabey a complete set of AESP's so they can have something to read for the journey to the unit
Are you one of those sort which instructs at the REME Arms School? The thick type who've either failed their BARB test for REME tradesman or couldn't work out the right way to hold a shovel up whilst in the infantry? Next you'll be telling me how to go about my business on HERRICK, whilst reminiscing about your last tour; that being of Belfast during 1991, before going on to bore me about how you transferred to REME as the amount of people you have killed prevents you being able to sleep at night.
 
#5
I_shat_in_Erics_boots said:
...

Maybe even trained on Bowman and how to actually speak on it? Familiarised on the likes of GPMG; do we not have lots of soldiers awaiting courses which could be receiving lessons on the military aspects of the REME? MATTs too. Lastly to have attended an equipment course on the kit he/she will be working on arrival.

...

Your thoughts......
I am currently at SEME, just started my trade course (Armourer). I arrived in November, and spent 2 months working in MT when Ito fill some of the time gap. I asked about getting on other courses but was essentially given the big Foxtrot Oscar for stuff like radio operators courses.

Its been a big bone of contention about getting people on course to actually fire weapons like jimpy and pistol on the 25m range to get a feel of what the weapon is like (a very rough feel I know), but as always a mass of red tape stands in the way.

As for military lessons, there is the SDT (Soldier Development Training) course which is a two week cycle of basic soldiering stuff.

Also the basic trade course is always under scrutiny, the civvy instructors are actually more than aware of what we need to learn in order to be properly field functional. Remove LSW, put in Minime, remove jimpy tripod and put in .50 cal HMG, and extend the course to include 105mm Light Gun. ..
 
#6
I_shat_in_Erics_boots said:
I'd also like those arriving to have the relevant licences before arrival and it endorsed on their FM/T (this is extremely difficult for some reason; how can a VM pass his driving test on a FV432 and yet be unable to drive one on arrival due to beaurocracy?).
Its not the FM/T 600 thats the issue its the driving record card. The MT SNCO will not put something on an FM/T without seeing it in the driving record. Case in point a Sgt wanted a DAF moved, didnt have it on his FM/T, so he scrawled it in himself and the MT SNCO signed it off. Subsequently had an RTA in the vehicle, board of enquiry wanted to see his driving record: no DAF. Oops. he got fcuked sideways for it, as did the MT SNCO, so now no SNCO will do it without accompanying paperwork. The DST Leconfield admin office are sh1t for sending paperwork through, and it can normally take 4-6 weeks for a driving record to catch up with a soldier posted out of SEME to regiment.

*Edited to add: currently cat B, c and CE licences are done before leaving here, unless you fail consistently at the test, at which point you are posted anyway and the unit is left to pick up the pieces. I believe this is soon changing to armourers only needing cat B, as C and CE are not seen as trade relevant. *Digs in and awaits incoming*
 
#8
secret_squirrel1989 said:
Remove LSW, put in Minime,
Minimi is already on the basic course you spoon.

remove jimpy tripod
And be absolutely f*cked when you wind up at a light infantry battalion, brilliant. Where are you getting your ideas from, the mad hatter?

and put in .50 cal HMG, and extend the course to include 105mm Light Gun. ..
Why? When it was announced my unit was going to be upscaled for this kit I was then sent off to do the course before it arrived.
 
#9
vampireuk said:
secret_squirrel1989 said:
Remove LSW, put in Minime,
Minimi is already on the basic course you spoon.

remove jimpy tripod
And be absolutely f*cked when you wind up at a light infantry battalion, brilliant. Where are you getting your ideas from, the mad hatter?

and put in .50 cal HMG, and extend the course to include 105mm Light Gun. ..
Why? When it was announced my unit was going to be upscaled for this kit I was then sent off to do the course before it arrived.
I did GPMG tripod, and .50 cal on my basic course. Is that not the case anymore?
 
#10
.50 is an equipment course these days, I believe his suggestion was to remove the GPMG tripod from the course altogether. Followed by legions of Craftsman crying their eyes out in Brecon when they don't have a clue what to do with the tripods.
 
#11
verticalgyro said:
What the fcuk is a "Driving Record Card" ?

I have passed C and C+E at ASMT Leconfield and been fammed on DAF 4t, CALM, Bedford 4t, 8t and 14t, and of course the 1 3/4t trailer. These were all recorded (and still are) on my FMT 600.

I do not have a "Driving Record Card" and have never had one. Are you suggesting to me that I am now driving Mil Vehs illegally?
I would speak to your MT SNCO if you don't have one. IIRC your drivers record records all thats on your FMT a bit like the paper counterpart for your civvy licence.
 
#12
secret_squirrel1989 said:
I believe this is soon changing to armourers only needing cat B, as C and CE are not seen as trade relevant. *Digs in and awaits incoming*
Hmm, who drives the macchy wagon then? I did my C in 92 as a Cpl Armr so I could drive the macchy wagon, at the time CE was not needed because the 16/24kW genny trailer wasn't big enough to be covered by the legislation.

Step forward to 98 and I'm a tiffy running A&G and the Crafty who has a CE loses all his licenses after a motoring conviction. As the only person in A&G with C, I do a CE course so that the section can move under its own manpower; the DAF 4-ton macchy wagon and genny now being regarded in the same league as Eddie Stobart's 6-axle 44-ton curtainsider.

2001 and I'm in Poland. We have a REME Bn's worth of vehicles to drive back from Poland. GS Coy has roated a load of its Techs though by train midway through the Ex; sending back most of the ones who'd driven the vehicles out. So it's licences in the hat and I end up driving some tech wagon back to Germany while its owner sleeps on next to me.

Still think Armourers don't need CE? The only thing you can drive on a B is a GS Landrover with no trailer. Just about everything else in the fleet is over 3.5 ton and so needs a at least a C1.
 
#13
I managed to get my C license, according to SEME at the time we didn't need the trailer componant, I wish they told my unit that I didn't need it as they tended to think it would have being useful. Pretty much sod all chance of getting it now anyway. :D
 
#14
smudge67 said:
vampireuk said:
secret_squirrel1989 said:
Remove LSW, put in Minime,
Minimi is already on the basic course you spoon.

remove jimpy tripod
And be absolutely f*cked when you wind up at a light infantry battalion, brilliant. Where are you getting your ideas from, the mad hatter?

and put in .50 cal HMG, and extend the course to include 105mm Light Gun. ..
Why? When it was announced my unit was going to be upscaled for this kit I was then sent off to do the course before it arrived.
I did GPMG tripod, and .50 cal on my basic course. Is that not the case anymore?
@vampireuk Minime has been removed from the basic course, i.e the course im doing right now because it was seen by the powers that be that if you could master a GPMG you would be able to cope with a minime if you needed the course at a later date.

@Smudge, GPMG tripod is still in but .50 cal is not.

Current weapons on basic course:
L9 browning pistol
L85A2 rifle
L86 LSW
UGL
L115A3 Sniper rifle
L7 Machine Gun and L4 Tripod
51mm and 81mm Mortar

Thats it for small arms and support weapons, after that it moves on to Rarden etc

@ Maj_Boothroyd As far as im aware, the reason the powers that be are stopping C and CE licences for armourers are in order to get them on to field units quicker, as C and CE licences can delay that for a few months.

@ Vertical Gyro Driving record is normally kept at your units MT office and is forwarded to the relevant unit with each posting. its a permanent record of any vehicle you have done fams training on, if its not in your driving record it wont go on your FM/T. On JPA somewhere you should be able to see all the vehicles you are famm'ed on...
 
#15
When I left Bordon we never even got Cat B as armourers.

I did my cat B myself, my cat C I got because we did the unit with an instructor some favours and got my C+E when I got my own machy wagon.

The most fun was my H licence - Warriors cross country - woo hoo!

As for going on special to equipment courses - to quote a REME officer when I asked for one "You are a class one, read the book and deal with it."
 
#16
verticalgyro said:
Next you'll be telling me that I have to carry out Fam training on a Vauxhall Astra estate despite owning one of them for five years plus.
The latest JSP800 has a before use sheet especially for white fleet vehicles so wait out on that one........
 
#17
I_shat_in_Erics_boots said:
CraftyJay said:
Your not looking for much are you?
Would you like them to bring a toolbox to prevent the time wasted signing one out? How about an STD to get rid of that trip to the bag house. Mabey a complete set of AESP's so they can have something to read for the journey to the unit
Are you one of those sort which instructs at the REME Arms School? The thick type who've either failed their BARB test for REME tradesman or couldn't work out the right way to hold a shovel up whilst in the infantry? Next you'll be telling me how to go about my business on HERRICK, whilst reminiscing about your last tour; that being of Belfast during 1991, before going on to bore me about how you transferred to REME as the amount of people you have killed prevents you being able to sleep at night.
Passed my BARB test ages ago and having just completed my class 1 guess I might be able to comment on the lads coming out of SEME, its hard for the young lads to get the courses they want and need for there unit. You think they should come out with bowman experience, GPMG familiarity, FMT and BFG tick test? Would be nice to have but its not gonna happen. You say the lads turning up at units are a liability and we need assets with ironed coveralls and twisters in. I didn't get to my first unit like that and I'm sure the lads that helped me through thought I was useless at the start(and i'd guess still do) but its on you to help these young crafties get to the standard you and the rest of the corps want. Sitting on here crying about what they don't have is nae use so stop crying about it and help them or if that don't sound like something you can manage fcuk off out the corp
 
#18
Got to say the folks turning up at my unit are spot on - yes, a few training deficiencies, but we can iron those out. As for licensing, a little help from your friendly MT staff goes a long way: C+E quals not an issue, just a matter of making some time and concentrating on removing most of the BS from the routine, treating people like adults and getting on with daily routine.
 
#19
CraftyJay said:
I_shat_in_Erics_boots said:
CraftyJay said:
Your not looking for much are you?
Would you like them to bring a toolbox to prevent the time wasted signing one out? How about an STD to get rid of that trip to the bag house. Mabey a complete set of AESP's so they can have something to read for the journey to the unit
Are you one of those sort which instructs at the REME Arms School? The thick type who've either failed their BARB test for REME tradesman or couldn't work out the right way to hold a shovel up whilst in the infantry? Next you'll be telling me how to go about my business on HERRICK, whilst reminiscing about your last tour; that being of Belfast during 1991, before going on to bore me about how you transferred to REME as the amount of people you have killed prevents you being able to sleep at night.
Passed my BARB test ages ago and having just completed my class 1 guess I might be able to comment on the lads coming out of SEME, its hard for the young lads to get the courses they want and need for there unit. You think they should come out with bowman experience, GPMG familiarity, FMT and BFG tick test? Would be nice to have but its not gonna happen. You say the lads turning up at units are a liability and we need assets with ironed coveralls and twisters in. I didn't get to my first unit like that and I'm sure the lads that helped me through thought I was useless at the start(and i'd guess still do) but its on you to help these young crafties get to the standard you and the rest of the corps want. Sitting on here crying about what they don't have is nae use so stop crying about it and help them or if that don't sound like something you can manage fcuk off out the corp
I think it's fair to say that your concerns as a an inexperienced class 1 are different than that of someone who is a section head or EME/ASM. I'm not even sure you know what a MET is, never mind have had to create spreadsheet after bloody spreadsheet to satisfy one.

Also, having to tell one of your lads that he is doing B2B exercises because you don't have enough Bulldog drivers, despite four of your new crafties having passed their test in a Bulldog, is a scenario I am trying to highlight. I'm trying to point out that we over emphasise all these trendy LEAN techniques and rubbish about ILUO charts ?), but give the basic problems a blind eye as they don't seem appealing enough. Both the topics I have just mentioned are what people in DEME(A)'s world spend endless nights dreaming about. It makes them feel like they are making a difference. They just love to hear how that sort of tosh is being implemented. The truth is; we work to get the job done in a 'best fits' ethos and then blag our way through the inspections and visits in the hope of pleasing the top brass. It's a false economy, just like the utter drivel written on the TRF image!

Anyway, get back to processing those laundry lists; there must have been at least four built up since you went on your class 1.
 
#20
Well then it'll be great to hear you voice these concerns to the big man at the WO's conference next month.

Personally Jay, you sound like the kind of bloke that I would like to have at my unit (and in fact am very lucky because I do have guys like you).

We'd all love to have an all singing all dancing super soldier but perhaps we should also think about the cost of making them so and the fact that the skills that you want may differ from those that you actually need.
 
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