REME MCM Div

1 or 2 Boards?

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  • 2

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#1
I would like some feedback on the subject of our MCM Div taking the position of holding only one board a year (mainly) per rank.

Do you think that if we reverted back to having two boards it could aid / improve retention within the Corps by personell only having to wait 6 instead of 12 months for their next chance?

This subject has been brought about by the increasing number of promotions "POST Board results", if this is happening then there must be scope to hold a second board or at least a second block of results instead of these suprise promotions.

Comments please. :boogie: :?
 
#2
grumpy1 said:
I would like some feedback on the subject of our MCM Div taking the position of holding only one board a year (mainly) per rank.

Do you think that if we reverted back to having two boards it could aid / improve retention within the Corps by personell only having to wait 6 instead of 12 months for their next chance?

This subject has been brought about by the increasing number of promotions "POST Board results", if this is happening then there must be scope to hold a second board or at least a second block of results instead of these suprise promotions.

Comments please. :boogie: :?
It isn't just the REMEs, dear boy, it's the whole shooting match; everyone gets just one board a year!

The promotions that were announced later were all ratified by the original board but the successful candidates (sic) were much lower down the list of results and, at the time of publication of the original list, it was not thought that they would be promoted in that year!

But with the turnover in the middle ranks at the moment, lots of people are striking lucky! Reportedly....

Hey, even I might stand a chance of promotion and escaping from this damned bedding store!

Litotes
 
#4
Now that the Army has mandated a Harmonised Soldier Year, splitting the promotion year in two is not allowed. Not sure you would gain much anyway as if you halfed it you would have half the number of vacancies so the promotion would not happen any faster for the vast majority. It happens too fast in some trades and ranks anyway - and far too slow in others. Its all about the structure of each trade group.

The reason for the high number of reserve list promotions is an understandable unwillingness of Records to publish 100% of the names of those they think will promote as estab changes (FAS, rebalancing etc) may mean the vacancies will disappear and someone announced on the initial list will be hugely disappointed when he is later told he is not going to promote. Also, with the amount of unspec posts not tied to a trade its impossible to forecast who will fill some of these posts early on. Also, many soldiers refuse promotion so reserves are then picked up unexpectedly. So about 70-80% of the likely promotions are usually announced.

Soldiers can have their chain of command call just after the results come out and records will say how far up the reserve list they are. This will give an indication if they have a chance of promotion later on. So, if this happens there shouldn't be many surprise promotions

Retention is more about better terms of service, less overstretch, better leadership, more fun, better accommodation, less pressure and commitments between op tours, less op tours, better schooling provision, better assistance to get on the housing market, better employment opportnities for spouses etc. Having 2 promotion years is not a solution
 
#6
I agree it is not a solution, if you read my intial comment I didn#t say it would, I asked "if we reverted back to having two boards it could aid / improve retention within the Corps"

Thank you for comments.
 
#7
Soldiers only get one CR (SJAR/OJAR) per year! Why hold another board at the 6 month point which will only consider the same previous few CR's of the soldiers in question? The scoring system is produced by plotting merit against time served. If the same few CR's were considered and each soldier had served an additional 6 months in the rank, why would the scoring system produced from the second board be any different from that produced on the first board????????????????????

(Obviously opinions of board members differ but let's ignore that because each and every board should be completely objective, unbiased and fair!!!!)

By the above reasoning, if there are only 100 vacancies in an upcoming promotion year, no amount of promotion boards will enable the 101st person (in the scoring system) to be promoted in that year.

IMHO an additional promotion board will only give false hope to those who do not understand the present system in place.

There should be some manner of system in place to allow those unlucky individuals who did not receive their CR's on time to be considered but that is not what the original question referred to - I just thought I'd add that to make myself look less unsympathetic!!!!!
 
#8
Alpha-Mech said:
There should be some manner of system in place to allow those unlucky individuals who did not receive their CR's on time to be considered but that is not what the original question referred to - I just thought I'd add that to make myself look less unsympathetic!!!!!
There is, its called an Extraordinary Board. They convene them and board you against the original list on the original board, if you score high enough you are promoted.
 
#9
Joe_Squad said:
Alpha-Mech said:
There should be some manner of system in place to allow those unlucky individuals who did not receive their CR's on time to be considered but that is not what the original question referred to - I just thought I'd add that to make myself look less unsympathetic!!!!!
There is, its called an Extraordinary Board. They convene them and board you against the original list on the original board, if you score high enough you are promoted.
Into what job? Surely all the vacancies would have been filled by successful candidates on the original board...
 
#10
Ok,

To clarify a few misconceptions:

1. The 2 Sgt Tech Boards are a unique thing (a red herring in this discussion) because they are outwith the harmonised soldier year which is based on the vacancy promotion system. The Sgt Tech board is based on the time promotion system. So eligible Cpls will not go to both - which one they attend is predicated on the time they have served from LCpl sub rank date i.e. 5 years from that date. To appear at the board they will need to have a recommendation and be Class 1 as well as have done 5 years from LCpl. All they need to do is score above the quality line (min standard expected of a Sgt). The only reason for this board is that some OCs lack the moral courage to say a 24 year old Cpl Tech with no great leadership qualities or grip is not yet ready so give him a fudged C Y report on the mistaken belief that he is being career fouled if not promoted on time. If the OCs all "did the right thing" these boards would not be necessary and it would be true time promotion. We already take the risk at Cfn to LCpl and LCpl to Cpl technican, without boarding.

2. Supplementary boards are a necessary evil due to OCs not getting their finger out to get CRs in on time. This is why records will never publish 100% of the names of those they expect to promote after the orginal board. So there is always opportunity to promote deserving cases later on from the reserve list. The one drawback is that those who are on the original promotion signal get first grab at their first preferences whereas those boarded late are left with the later occurring vacancies and perhaps less attractive jobs. Message remains to soldiers and OCs - get the yellow pieces of paper to Glasgow on time!
 
#11
pot_aussie said:
Joe_Squad said:
Alpha-Mech said:
There should be some manner of system in place to allow those unlucky individuals who did not receive their CR's on time to be considered but that is not what the original question referred to - I just thought I'd add that to make myself look less unsympathetic!!!!!
There is, its called an Extraordinary Board. They convene them and board you against the original list on the original board, if you score high enough you are promoted.
Into what job? Surely all the vacancies would have been filled by successful candidates on the original board...
Vacancies appear all the time; most are predictable, some are not.

Litotes
 
#12
okimato said:
Ok,

To clarify a few misconceptions:

1. The 2 Sgt Tech Boards are a unique thing (a red herring in this discussion) because they are outwith the harmonised soldier year which is based on the vacancy promotion system. The Sgt Tech board is based on the time promotion system. So eligible Cpls will not go to both - which one they attend is predicated on the time they have served from LCpl sub rank date i.e. 5 years from that date. To appear at the board they will need to have a recommendation and be Class 1 as well as have done 5 years from LCpl. All they need to do is score above the quality line (min standard expected of a Sgt). The only reason for this board is that some OCs lack the moral courage to say a 24 year old Cpl Tech with no great leadership qualities or grip is not yet ready so give him a fudged C Y report on the mistaken belief that he is being career fouled if not promoted on time. If the OCs all "did the right thing" these boards would not be necessary and it would be true time promotion. We already take the risk at Cfn to LCpl and LCpl to Cpl technican, without boarding.

2. Supplementary boards are a necessary evil due to OCs not getting their finger out to get CRs in on time. This is why records will never publish 100% of the names of those they expect to promote after the orginal board. So there is always opportunity to promote deserving cases later on from the reserve list. The one drawback is that those who are on the original promotion signal get first grab at their first preferences whereas those boarded late are left with the later occurring vacancies and perhaps less attractive jobs. Message remains to soldiers and OCs - get the yellow pieces of paper to Glasgow on time!
Easier said than done though, i`ve been chasing a CR which was due last march from my old unit, still havent got it and proberly wont even get it, thus meaning im a CR down when I go too the board this year.
Who apart from my OC and old unit is there anyone else I can speak too regarding this situation?
 
#13
Its not easy but if you put in a formal complaint (redress) using AGAI 70 that should get things rolling. Sadly it should not have to come to that :x
 
#14
okimato said:
Its not easy but if you put in a formal complaint (redress) using AGAI 70 that should get things rolling. Sadly it should not have to come to that :x
That was my next POC, I remember learning about it on JMC $hite, it`s just rage`s me the fact that just because you`ve been posted out of a unit, then the OC feels he doesnt have too carry on his duty, plus it was a tour CR aswel :x
Thanks for the info though.
 
#15
okimato said:
Its not easy but if you put in a formal complaint (redress) using AGAI 70 that should get things rolling. Sadly it should not have to come to that :x
As a matter of interest, AGAI 70 was replaced by tri-service JSP 831 wef 8 Jan 08. See under "Service Personnel matters" on BAFF website.
 
#16
okimato said:
Ok,

To clarify a few misconceptions:

The Sgt Tech board is based on the time promotion system. So eligible Cpls will not go to both - which one they attend is predicated on the time they have served from LCpl sub rank date i.e. 5 years from that date. To appear at the board they will need to have a recommendation and be Class 1 as well as have done 5 years from LCpl. All they need to do is score above the quality line (min standard expected of a Sgt). The only reason for this board is that some OCs lack the moral courage to say a 24 year old Cpl Tech with no great leadership qualities or grip is not yet ready so give him a fudged C Y report on the mistaken belief that he is being career fouled if not promoted on time. If the OCs all "did the right thing" these boards would not be necessary and it would be true time promotion. We already take the risk at Cfn to LCpl and LCpl to Cpl technican, without boarding.

I think that more OCs should have the balls to try to prevent a cpl getting promoted after FIVE years (look at average times of other reme trades) from sub Lcpl (normally awarded straight out of training!) if they are not upto SNCO status. Time promotion is outdated and only causes resentment in the ranks. Why do we have time promotion, can anybody tell me? In addition how will Veng effect time promotion. Does this mean that non tech trades will have to wait even longer now to be promoted whilst tech trades will still be promoted on time?
 
#17
The Army (i.e. DM(A)) is supposedly trying to get rid of time promotion across all Corps but seems to not be following through. It is not that compliant with the concept behind VEng. That said VEng does not affect time promotion as the "Time promotion bit" for techs only goes up to Sgt with most getting Sgt by they are about 25 years old after only 6 years! Veng is about decision points at 12 years and 24 years.

Time promotion was the only "ham fisted" solution derived decades ago to give techs the competitive salary versus their civvy peers. The Corps has been trying to find out ways for years to bin time promotion. Ideas such as giving a retention lump sum every few years which equates to the higher rank related pay rate money given to them on every promotion have been mooted. Apparently you fall into insurmountable issues over pensions, AFPRB rules etc with most ideas like this.

Bottom line - the leaders in our Corps don't like it either for the reasons everyone states. The wider Army refuses to provide a solution by just deriving a higher pay band but limiting them to competitive vacancy promotion like all the rest.
 

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