REME 2Lt, should the first posting be first line LAD??

Discussion in 'REME' started by ArmySurplusSpecial, Feb 21, 2006.

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  1. This no way Officer baiting so Offrs please dont take it as such...

    But, Having done a few 1st line units whilst in the Corps and then having a Second line posting near the end of my time do you think that young 2Lt's should do the first stint at an LAD?

    The reason i say this is at first line when they tip up, they usually gain a vast amount of experience in what the lads actually do. The EME will usually usher them through each Ftr Sect and tell the Tiffy, "use him and abuse him"

    Apart from this his tasks usually involve Adv Trg and the like, in other words not really being in charge too much of what the lads are doing. Just watching and learning...

    At a certain LAD we had a young 2Lt who was "given" to us by the EME and he was thoroughly beasted and generally abused for the first couple of months. To give the guy his credit he was well up for anything and was a cracking bloke. Even his humour and morale was high when he was wedgied in a pub by 2-3 of the lads.

    I also saw this (maybe not to this extreme) at other 1st line LAD's.

    In the Bn i noticed that none of this was evident and the young 2Lt's were mollycoddled, allowed to "run" sections too early and generally didnt have a scooby what the lads did. There was also the massive culture divide between Offr's and OR's not seen as much in LAD's.

    Is this due to a lack of "educating" that should have been instilled early on? At the second post this is too late as they are Lt/Capt by this time.

    Any thoughts or am i all wrong?! :wink:
  2. Yeah I think you're right mate. Get them out in the real world for a while before they get indoctrinated by all the chinless wonders that hover round the CO's behind. It makes them appreciate more what happans on the ground.
  3. 1st line does give 'em the opportunity to see what it's all about and, I think, means that when they go to 2nd line they've got an understanding of the pressures at 1st line. I think - but I'm not sure - that the Corps aims to send all newly commissioned officers to 1st line for a 6 month tour.

    Where I've seen it work really well is where the LAD are going on ex to BATUS. The fresh faced YO can be thrown in Samson/CRARRV etc and get his hands really dirty before then commanding a vehicle (24B) say and then maybe a Ftr Sect for a couple of days before shadowing ASM and then EME. Best way of educating a YO in 4 weeks flat!
  4. I agree totally 1st line LAD, no mess tins. For OR's the best job is ultimately ASM of an LAD. Which generally arrives at the end of a 22 stretch. During which time they will have had a lot of experience with various units, giving them a breadth of knowledge which will allow them to effectively run an LAD with high availability, retention and morale. In theory anyway.

    For Officers, their best job is EME of an LAD which will come within 6 to 9 years, correctme if I am wrong. They will not have had the same breadth of experience as the ASM so by kicking them out to an LAD as a YO will at the leastprepare them for later on in their life.
  5. 6 - 9 years?? You mean 3 - 5 years. After 9 years, some are getting their majority!
  6. 3-5 years? I did not think it was that quick! All the more reason to hoof them out to an LAD for a first posting!
  7. Having had two 2Lts in a past unit (AS90) with the grandiose title of Wksp 2ic, I honestly believe that they have now got a better grounding than those poor souls sent to Bn. As pointed out by AEM, if you build on that 4 weeks by in barracks work, Adv Trg, the boys having to suffer overtime through bad mangement, the buggerance of ISTs. It will give them a clearer picture of what is right and wrong, come their command appointment. On the point of ISTs, if puzzle palace see things running too well they might IST 2Lts, sending them forward to carry out Adv Trg, Cfns CRs, Inspection pit needs repainting, etc to a rebalanced unit.

    edited because I am a typing mong and this keyboard is getting launched
  8. Gundog - remember that REME DE Offrs are all grads, therefore they pick up Capt after 2 years. :roll:
  9. If only things were that simple. It would indeed be fantastic for all YOs to spend some time at 1st line. However, there are lots of 2Lts/Lts and an ever-decreasing number of 1st line units to put them into. Not all YOs can therefore spend this useful time with LADs and Bns are the next best option. Still, it could be worse - they could go straight to an ATRA unit.
  10. It matters not where they go, as long as they are given the correct direction and level of knowledge.

    The benefits of being at first line are different to those of being at second line, but they are never the less benefits, and vicky vercka.
    YO's can be shown the real world and the way it works at Bn level and get a wider view on life other than being the officers mess pond/log rep as normally happens in an Armd Regt.
    SNCO's have a part to play in their education, and they will come into contact with more REME SNCO's at a Bn that in a LAD. If the YO's then go onwards and upwards to become a yes man who forgets about the concerns of the Toms, its probably because we fu**ed them about as YO's when we should have been showing then the way ahead.

    They should be at Bn's where they meet more of the guys, not messing about in a first line LAD where they will end up doing all sorts of dead end jobs not the one they were sent there to do.
  11. Whats that them TM, get them into the bullsh1t ethos of Bn buzzword bingo ?????? Lean this Lean that my arrrse!! get them to first line and see the impact these barmy concepts are having on us at 1st line. Rant complete, going green!
  12. That used to be the way to go fella, but not any more. Not going to have many LAD's soon. Get em into the Bn's, show em how to look after the guys with the high fliers about and hopefully they will remember how there daft descisions affect the workers later on in life.
    They get to see the sh1t things about Bn life, not just the good things that always seem to happen at 1 st line more then 2nd line.

    Most of importantly of all, if we don't show them the error of there ways they are going to turn into right choppers later on in life
  13. Perhaps an ideal solution then would be to "traffic" them around units, for one year at a time perhaps. That way they can sample life at first and second line and maybe Gemany, after all they are mostly single and them moving around cannot be to much detriment surely. Heck they might even enjoy all the moving around gaining a breadth of experience.
  14. I have done 2 tours at 2nd line and both times prided myself at being able to provide my customers with what they wanted, the kit back in their hands asap, we no longer do this at Bn level due to policy invention, I know as I suffer it at 1st line on a regular basis due to tradesmen who cannot provide the basics, as they don't get taught their job in their daily routine at 2nd line. Yet according to the ivory towers all is rosey, the opinion at 1st line is different, as now my Sqn Ldr wants me to do self help all the time to make sure the job is done right, I don't see how this sort of first sight is going to help.
  15. Having spent my first tour with an armoured LAD, I believe that every young Officer should be sent to a first line unit. I was not only taken under the wing of the EME, but also the ASM, AQMS, Tiffys, and all SNCO's. I had a great time and learned so much more than if I went to a Bn. The young officer has to have the right attitude though. He can learn alot from the seniors who will offer their advice and vast knowledge, but he/she has to want to learn from them. As far as REME is concerned he/she is still very wet behind the ears as regards to the Corps. i.e. young "I know it all" attitudes will not get them far.

    I loved my eme lt tour and wish I could have another!!