Relationships WIth Other Ranks

Discussion in 'Professionally Qualified, RAMC and QARANC' started by Peanutbutter, Apr 25, 2004.

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  1. Relationships with Other Ranks – your view

    Op Telic – what a tour……………..

    I am a Private ranked soldier. Whilst serving in Iraq I got caught having a personal relationship with a married but separated SNCO. Is this a chargeable offence? As I result, my Squadron Seniors and Officers (who I may add, are personally familiar with this certain situation!) decided that the best way to deal with this, was to send me else where in theatre. Their aim, was for this relationship to end and for us to have no contact with one another until the end of our tour. But, as a result this made our relationship stronger and we are still together now. (We have had our fair share of problems and it hasn’t been the smooth relationship we both hoped). Our Squadron Seniors and Officers were oblivious that we were still in frequent contact.

    Our Sqn Seniors and Officers are now fully aware that we are in contact. As a result I have been extended in Theatre for an extra month while my partner returns camp. Therefore, we are unable to take any POTL together. It is also inevitable, that on my return to camp I am posted early to a new unit.

    My overall view of the whole situation is that our squadron has very much over reacted and are continuing to create further problems, even four months later. However, I can see that they initially had to react to this situation in some form, hence their positions in the Rank structure. (I am sure they would have been frowned upon if they were to have done nothing.) But a relationship in the Forces is hard enough, without added unnecessary attention! I think that yet again, the Forces need to re – think and change the way they deal with certain situations – a more modern approach maybe?

    Who are the Armed Forces Hierarchy to tell you, who you can and cannot have a relationship with?

    Lessons to be learnt: If you are to get involved with “Other Ranks” trust NO ONE and DON’T GET CAUGHT………….
  2. msr

    msr LE


    Easy, just apply the 'service test'.

  3. If you are too naive to realise why there are such rules, perhaps Tescos could provide better career opportunities for you.
  4. And if you are still going to do it then make sure no-one else is any the wiser.
  5. Well I can't offer advice PeanutButter but,

    There was another situation in the Litter Tray , where a female was caught in flagrante delecto with a SNCO in the hot sandy place . There was much hilarity ,as well as having several TA soldiers re-affirm their belief there is a God after all :D

    If you want an idea of the level of sympathy you can expect, I'd venture over to the RAMC part of the forum , where a similar incident has been discussed.

    Especially by the Guard
  6. Peanut,

    I have sympathy but let us not forget the business we are in.....when you sign up you have to surrender certain things that are taken for granted in the other life – you have VOLUNTEERED to put yourself in harm's way.

    I have no time for AGAI 67 as normally applied (I think it should be the last of all options) but it exists to deter misbehaviour that impairs military decision making.

    An example scenario:

    Your boyfriend as a SNCO, Sgt Bloggs, is responsible for detailing personnel to attack a trench. You are a clerk (normally a zillion miles behind us in the AGC but now the OC’s radio Op/dvr) now one of the possible nominees

    Does his relationship with you figure in his decision to detail personnel to a dangerous task……probably so. That is why the whole business of females in teeth arms )(& attached to them) is a c___k of s___t because relationships develop and are involved in decisions.

    Keep females out of combat zones..they create their own

  7. Peanut,

    firstly remember that the hierarchy in your unit must be seen to be taking action against YOU BOTH!

    You may be getting extended out there but I bet his promotion chances are now well and truly ficked.

    Since females became an integral part of Medical units it was inevitable that this would occur. However, have they applied the service test? Is he in a position of responsibility and in your chain of command? I know he is a SNCO but he may not be directly related in that chain!

    Finally, if they are pissing you off, which sounds like they are and you are serious about each other then one of you leave. Problem solved.
  8. dui-lai, Thanks for the advice.
    Could you please expand your knowlage on "The Service Test"

    He is in a position of authority, but not in my line of work. Does this make a difference?
    Many Thanks Peanut Butter.

    Ps. Just some extra info - I am not part of a medical Unit, this is just where my "Subject" got published. I have also seriously thought about leaving the Forces World, but we am determined to not let the Hierarchy get the better of us!
  9. 3 points really Peanut, firstly you say caught, which implies that even you thinks its wrong.
    secondly, he is married but separated, which is technically still married.

    and thirdly, youre on an operational tour, good to see youve time for a relationship, mind on the job eh? professionalism at its best!!
  10. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    Top Tip- Dont get caught! And dont expect a realtionship to survive when both parties are in the same unit.
  11. Commander's Guide Edition of 'Values and Satndards of the British Army' defines the Service Test as:

    “Have the actions or behaviour of an
    individual adversely impacted or are they
    likely to impact on the efficiency or
    operational effectiveness of the Army?”

    Which is about as ambiguous as it is possible to be.
  12. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    I thought it was when a CO has decided two parties has trangressed the unwritten rules and are duely punished with the full force of the Service.
  13. Or they will just make it up as they go along! :wink:
  14. OK...the Service Test and maintenance of discipline within the Army.

    The Adjutant General was closely involved in the redesigning of Service Law in the wake of the adoption of the Human Rights Act (HRA). The amended piece of legislation is known as the Armed Forces Discipline Act 2000 (AFDA 00). The Army Act of 1955 (AA 55) still applies where relevant.

    In July 2000, the Adjutant General articulated the importance of discipline:

    The AFDA 00 upheld the authority of Commanding Officers to exercise discipline - whilst safeguarding the rights of the individual. AA 55 was amended in line with this, so that the discipline system is compliant with the HRA.

    There are (essentially) 2 main streams of dispensing justice: summary dealing and further if required, and administrative action within the auspices of AGAI 67 (in development). AGAI 67 is concerned with upholding standards of conduct set out in Values and Standards, and this is the area that this thread is concerned with.

    The Service Test is to be applied in all cases of Misconduct. Examples of misconduct include (but are not limited to) Fauilure to adhere to the law, discrimination and harrassment, bullying, social misbehaviour, drug misuse, alcohol misuse, irresponsible indebtedness, unauthorised contact with the media, and inappropriate social conduct.

    When considering cases of misconduct, and in determining whether the Service has a duty to intervene in the personal lives of its' personnel, Commanding Officers at every level must consider each case against the Service Test:

    So what is 'operational effectiveness'. Isee above that it has been described as being fairly vague. How about:

    The key phrase here is 'function as a cohesive force'. The overarching requirement is that discipline underpins OE, and that discipline is inseparable from leadership. Self-discipline must be underwritten by enforcement. Military discipline must be fair, appropriate, timely and proportionate.

    In the case outlined above, I can offer you a personal interpretation of the situation as it has been presented here.

    1. The male in question is still lawfully married.
    2. The male in question is technically commiting adultery.
    3. A significant disparity in rank exists.
    4. The relationship is within the chain of command (defined as within formation)
    5. The relationship was continued in an operational environment.
    6. The relationship has clearly affected the normas of loyalty and integrity within the WOs and Sgts Mess community.

    In this case, the application of the Service Test would seem to indicate that the norms of conduct have been breached, and that the couple in question are acting with misconduct.

    I would be very surprised if you had been allowed to continue this relationship with impunity, for obvious reasons.

    Peanut - I have a great deal of sympathy for your situation, but can offer no kind words of mitigation.
  15. Peanut,

    There are many reasons for you unit to be seen to be taking action - not just for the breach of the service test (see TSW post) but for the morale of others (it must be fairly public knowledge and you can't have been very discreet. If he or she is seperated but not divorced it all depends on the MARRISTAT which might still be 1. If the spouse is still in a quarter at home imagine the morale factor for other spouses!

    Bottom line - you're on a 6 month tour so if you are serious about each other then you'll last POTL (he could even ask to delay his maybe) and it will work. It is an op tour and I'd even expect a married couple to be sensitive to the fact everyone else is not 'with partner' for 6 months and not behave like honeymooners!