Relations between Russia and the West in the context of Ukrainian crisis

I obediently beg the moderators to allow this thread because it is a hot issue. It is a developing story. Some important questions that emerge in relations between Russia and the West would be logical to discuss in a separate thread.

First of all I would like to comment very interesting observation made by Whitecity

There are no sanctions against Russia.

There are sanctions against named individuals and now some state controlled (directly/indirectly) companies. All of which are closely related to the decision-makers who are destroying your country.

Indeed, from formal point of view, they are not sanctions against Russia as a state. So, I agree it would be more correct to speak about merely anti-Russian sanctions and Russian counter-sanctions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during_the_2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine

During the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine, a number of governments applied sanctions against individuals and businesses from Russia and Ukraine. Sanctions were approved by the United States, the European Union (EU) and other countries and international organisations. Russia has responded with sanctions against a number of countries, including a total ban on food imports from the EU, United States, Norway, Canada and Australia.
 
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The only sanctions that are truly punishing the Russian people are the counter-sanctions imposed by the Russian government!
 
The only sanctions that are truly punishing the Russian people are the counter-sanctions imposed by the Russian government!

Your point of view has right to exist. However, food (meat, fish, fruits and vegetables) from Argentina, China, Chile, South Africa, North Africa, Brazil, Israel, Turkey would easily substitute import from the EU, USA and other countries. Also local Russian producers that were unable to compete with subsided agricultural import from Europe, now would be in preferable situation.

With pleasure I see reports from Southern Russia (from Dagestan for examle) where local producers of fruits nad vegetables could only dream to sell their products in Moscow through big supermarkets chains like Achan. For Achan owners it was much easier to buy goods in Europe.

But now... for the first time I saw cheese from Serbia in my local Achan in Moscow. There is more vegetables from Russia.
 
Your point of view has right to exist. However, food (meat, fish, fruits and vegetables) from Argentina, China, Chile, South Africa, North Africa, Brazil, Israel, Turkey would easily substitute import from the EU, USA and other countries.
I think you underestimate the logistics required to do this.

Also local Russian producers that were unable to compete with subsided agricultural import from Europe, now would be in preferable situation.

I read that as basically saying: Russian producers who were unable to compete against cheaper and higher quality imports from Europe find it now possible to sell their poor quality produce at a high price.

With pleasure I see reports from Southern Russia (from Dagestan for examle) where local producers of fruits nad vegetables could only dream to sell their products in Moscow through big supermarkets chains like Achan. For Achan owners it was much easier to buy goods in Europe.
Of course it was easier, plus they were guaranteed a high quality product at a reasonable price. That is now no longer possible and they will have to sell the crap locally produced items for a higher price.
But now... for the first time I saw cheese from Serbia in my local Achan in Moscow. There is more vegetables from Russia.
This I give you, the Serbs are very happy that the Russian market has opened up to them more, after they were sanctioned for passing off Spanish produce as their own (and forgetting to remove the Spanish labels).
 

Auld-Yin

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So, other than peddling Russian 'we don't care' propaganda, what is the purpose of this thread?
Discussion and debate - a concept beyond you perhaps?
 
I think you underestimate the logistics required to do this.

We with my wife use to buy foods in local supermarket Achan (it is a French net). There was a lot of French products, including wines, butter and cheese. However, even before the counter-sanctions there was cheese from Argentina and Uruguay, fruits and vegetables from South Africa, Morocco, Egypt, Israel, from Equador and many other places. If you have money (and Russian buyers have them) then logistic problems would be resolved.
 
He's not discussing or debating, just regurgitating Kremlin ' the sanctions are backfiring on the West' nonsense off RT.

Rarely I quoted RT. OK, Let's look at BBC

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28801353

Hungary's conservative Prime Minister Viktor Orban says the EU is harming itself by imposing sanctions on Russia, describing the measures as "shooting oneself in the foot".

He was speaking after his Slovak counterpart, Robert Fico, had also criticised the EU sanctions
...
Mr Fico called the EU sanctions against Russia a "meaningless" gesture

It is not RT agitprop but views of democratically elected leaders of EU countries.

Now look at this headline

Eurozone growth slows amid Russia sanction fears

You may think that it is from RT. No it is again BBC

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28880751
 
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Goatman

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We with my wife use to buy foods in local supermarket Achan (it is a French net).

That'll be Auchan - somewhere between Intermarché and Super-U or Carrefour in terms of quality .....they have a colossal outlet just outside Boulogne......didn't know they had expanded ops into Ostland, every day a college day.
 
We with my wife use to buy foods in local supermarket Achan (it is a French net). There was a lot of French products, including wines, butter and cheese. However, even before the counter-sanctions there was cheese from Argentina and Uruguay, fruits and vegetables from South Africa, Morocco, Egypt, Israel, from Equador and many other places. If you have money (and Russian buyers have them) then logistic problems would be resolved.
Of course supermarkets in Russia have a certain stock of items from places apart from those that have had sanctions put on them, but you are talking about finding sources to provide over 50% of food stuffs almost overnight. And don't think that the inefficient throwback to the soviet times that is Russian agriculture at the moment will be able to ramp up production (especially just before the harvest) to cover the gaps.
 
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Auchan has outlets in Russia and the Ukraine and even has its own local brands (a bit like ASDA cornflakes). That Serbia is flogging stuff there comes as no surprise; the Serbs are enthralled by the Russians (ignoring history, as do many peoples so not a plus or a minus) and they think that the Russians are enthralled by them. They are also easier to sell as they do not have to meet EU standards (but a lot do!)

However I suspect Russian pride will get the Russian masses through any inconvenience and the middle and upper classes will pay ready cash for better quality or luxury items. 'Twas always the same and the Black Market has always existed - everywhere and at every time.

Sergei - a question. Are there Ukrainian products available in Russian supermarkets still?
 
Sergei - a question. Are there Ukrainian products available in Russian supermarkets still?

No, Vodka and bier, cheese other diary products from Ukraine are banned. Fruits, vegetables are banned as well.Of course Ukrainian chokolate is banned long ago (pres.Poroshenko is so called 'chokolate king') It is full scale trade war. Ukraine may seek new markers in Europe but now it is a hard task taking into account Russian counter-sanctions against European food export. Support Ukraine, buy Ukrainian chokolate, bier or cheese... it you are sure that they are good.
 
No, Vodka and bier, cheese other diary products from Ukraine are banned. Fruits, vegetables are banned as well.Of course Ukrainian chokolate is banned long ago (pres.Poroshenko is so called 'chokolate king') It is full scale trade war. Ukraine may seek new markers in Europe but now it is a hard task taking into account Russian counter-sanctions against European food export. Support Ukraine, buy Ukrainian chokolate, bier or cheese... it you are sure that they are good.
No Nemiroff?
Shit I'm not looking forward to my next mission in Russia! (Not that I really ever look forward to going there)
 
That'll be Auchan - somewhere between Intermarché and Super-U or Carrefour in terms of quality .....they have a colossal outlet just outside Boulogne......didn't know they had expanded ops into Ostland, every day a college day.

There is a lot of Auchan supermarkets in moscow and other Russian cities, including huge ones. There is a big hypermaket 2 km from my home and also there is mini-supermarket ATAK (mini-Auchan). There is a lot of other supermarkets (mainly belonged to Russian retailers).

http://www.auchan.ru/en/auchan_russia

The Russian retail market enjoys excellent growth prospects. Nowadays modern retail represents only 14% of the Russian market compared to 90% in Europe. While delivering high standards of service, Auchan offers a very large assortment of quality goods at everyday low prices, which are the basis for its success in Russia.

Auchan in Russia - it is

http://www.groupe-auchan.com/en/who-is-auchan/international-presence/

On 30/06/2014
81 hypermarkets
30 Atak supermarchés
34 shopping centres
 
D

Deleted 20555

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Discussion and debate - a concept beyond you perhaps?

lol...the problem with that is that you are judging the idea behind this thread and the OP by your own standards of intellectual fair play and a back and forth of ideas - that is not the agenda and it would be like expecting a Sabra from the kibbutz or a Palestinian from Gaza to post without their respective baggage.

The OP's baggage is that Russia/USSR are and where innocent of any wrongdoing and deserve to be treated as civilised nations and be allowed to do as they wish since they are a super power.

Once you get past that basic idea posts are easy to see for what they are...propaganda, lies and dis-information.

The beauty about the internet is that it gives a person enough rope to show everyone exactly what they are.
 
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