Reintroduction of WO2

A great title from the not-so-distant past.
For the sake of tradition we should call RN WO2's FCPO.
But the other services wouldn't understand it, I guess.
The average marine gets confused by our rate titles and where they stand compared to us matelots, let alone Biggles and Perce!
 
I think I'd tell the Chief that he's had a good career, advanced ahead of most of his contemporaries. And if he's great he might become a WO2, and if he's exceptional he may even become a WO1. But both of those are out of the norm for the vast majority of Ratings.
Spoken like all good Warfare branch senior management. Just the one small step from the wonderful response of “Don’t like it, put your notice in”. We all know where that left the RN the last time it was deployed regularly and acted upon.
 
How are you defining "lower deck" here? Solely WO and Senior CPOs? Or the POs and junior CPOs who know they are in a dead man's shoes scenario, waiting for a group of people who have no incentive to leave before they are 55?
Nobody forced the RN to offer EC to all those people selected for WO. They certainly weren’t forced to offer people careers to 55 or even 60. I know one guy who, when selected for WO, was offered so much EC he had more time to serve than he’d done to that point.
The RN thought it was to their benefit to tie people in for extra years and people who wanted to accepted. It’s not the fault of the individual engineers that the branches are in this position. As with all of these issues it comes down to fundamental mismanagement by senior leaders and knee jerk ill thought change. Even when they announce these things and people point out the flaws they ignore them.
 

Rab_C

War Hero
Spoken like all good Warfare branch senior management. Just the one small step from the wonderful response of “Don’t like it, put your notice in”. We all know where that left the RN the last time it was deployed regularly and acted upon.
I remember a heated discussion with my CO, I was HOD on a survey boat and he commented on me being over the gangway spot on 16:00. The long and short of it was I had a job while he had a career and until this attitude changes from the top down things will not get better. As long as you’re just an employee they’ll do whatever they want with you.
 
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For the non-tech branches, it just seems like it will be a new hoop to jump through to reach WO1.

I can imagine the few drafts at sea for in-branch WOs will become WO2 positions and the WO1s will end up bring part of the new non-trade Exec branch instead. Bringing carriers inline with FF/DD where the EWO is the only WO1 and everyone else will be a WO2.
 

Rab_C

War Hero
For the non-tech branches, it just seems like it will be a new hoop to jump through to reach WO1.

I can imagine the few drafts at sea for in-branch WOs will become WO2 positions and the WO1s will end up bring part of the new non-trade Exec branch instead. Bringing carriers inline with FF/DD where the EWO is the only WO1 and everyone else will be a WO2.
Allows the dabbers (Exec branch) to control the WO&CPOs mess, they always hated that it was a Tiffs preserve.
 
So many different 'Chiefs', still the same number of Indians.

Its all getting very American, everyones an NC something or Other.

Coming next… Chief Petty Officer 1st Class, 2nd Class, 3rd Class
 
A great title from the not-so-distant past.
For the sake of tradition we should call RN WO2's FCPO.
But the other services wouldn't understand it, I guess.
couldn't agree more...will always remember in the 80s when I first heard someone called ''fleet''...now thats a real title
 

bob231

War Hero
So many different 'Chiefs', still the same number of Indians.

Its all getting very American, everyones an NC something or Other.

Coming next… Chief Petty Officer 1st Class, 2nd Class, 3rd Class
It really isn't. A Type 23 15 years ago had six or seven Chiefs (those who've served more than a Dog Watch will correct me), POs doing jobs that are now done by LETs, LMEMs and LMELs doing things that now would be done by an ET...

Sure, this has come with significant dilution of experience and has left us very reliant on expertise at CPO level. But if anything the technical branches have REDUCED senior rates.
 
It really isn't. A Type 23 15 years ago had six or seven Chiefs (those who've served more than a Dog Watch will correct me), POs doing jobs that are now done by LETs, LMEMs and LMELs doing things that now would be done by an ET...

Sure, this has come with significant dilution of experience and has left us very reliant on expertise at CPO level. But if anything the technical branches have REDUCED senior rates.
Yep. Type 42s had eight CPO MEs as section heads. Toward the end they dropped to 3 plus a DEPCO. Type 45 has the same now. The number of POs has even reduced from T42 to 45. They even used to have two CCPO on FF/DD through into the 90s. The WEs have only recently got rid of their second WOWE.
Engineering departments have reduced SR numbers significantly over the years. There is little to no prospect of it going in the other direction.
 
Of course, most of those CPOs were 'tifs who got there no more or less quickly than the majority of ETs do.

What was it - CPO within 7 years of walking through the gates of RAL?
 
Of course, most of those CPOs were 'tifs who got there no more or less quickly than the majority of ETs do.

What was it - CPO within 7 years of walking through the gates of RAL?
Not always - took me 19 years from Fisgard to CPO..... via Raleigh, Art App, JMEM, MEM, LMEM, POMEM, Mechs course then POMEA
 
Of course, most of those CPOs were 'tifs who got there no more or less quickly than the majority of ETs do.

What was it - CPO within 7 years of walking through the gates of RAL?
Nope. Pretty much 8 years minimum. Is that a problem though? They were only following the rules at the time.
Also the journey was very different. The 4 years on a ship after Tiffs course were spent in deep training going round all the sections in the department learning the job. You were not in a complement billet being expected to deliver OC from the beginning. You had a lot of experienced seniors to learn from. You then became a CPO at the end of those years. So the CPOs on a FF/DD were at the ten plus year point and had fairly vast experience.
 
There is a balance of SQEP v people.

I'm losing people because they see a complete log jam ahead of them and don't want to "wait their turn". There is no good answer, just an answer we're going to have to live with.

As you've said, the real sticking point is we've lots of people "refusing" to go back to sea to help out there - that's just not sustainable.
When is this happening? It could have a knock-on effect in terms of Training Audiences for new platforms which are currently being analysed: cough . . . T26 . . . cough!

Edit: oh, and T31 too but we don't care about that really because it's Babcock's problem!!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
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WO1 in each department. But the DepCo role in the WE World is now done by a CPO.
Which is odd because in the ME world it's a PO - yet another inconsistency between the ME and WE branches.

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Of course, most of those CPOs were 'tifs who got there no more or less quickly than the majority of ETs do.

What was it - CPO within 7 years of walking through the gates of RAL?
Qualified for the job, you got the rate. Class mate of mine got his Boiler ticket/MEA2 Fleetboard/Unit ticket within 20 months of leaving Caledonia. Joined his next ship as an A/MEA2 and was immediately rated Local Acting MEA1. The job of Chief of the Watch carried the rate of CPO.
 

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