Reintroduction of WO2

Interesting - I thought that there was no pay, hence the clamor for WO2!
CCPO did get more pay but the pension was a CPO's I seem to recall. The WO2 pension is more so it's a big incentive for the more forward planning types.
I may be wrong mind, it was all a very long time ago that my name appeared on the first signal for promotion to WO2 and I told 'em to poke WO2 because I wanted out (Signal was out 2004 for promotion if all courses etc completed by April 2006)
 

Mattb

LE
Any thoughts then on how many of the new WO2 positions will be CPO "promotions" and how many will be WO1 "demotions"?
 
Any thoughts then on how many of the new WO2 positions will be CPO "promotions" and how many will be WO1 "demotions"?
I would anticipate the vast majority to be WO1 de-enrichments, that were (10 years ago) done by CPOs or CCPOs.
 

Mattb

LE
I would anticipate the vast majority to be WO1 de-enrichments, that were (10 years ago) done by CPOs or CCPOs.
So a money-saving exercise then, with tiny wage savings at the expense of morale and retention then?
 

Rab_C

War Hero
So a money-saving exercise then, with tiny wage savings at the expense of morale and retention then?
Or reverting to the original system but not admitting that yet again they’ve screwed the manpower up. Rinse and repeat. Why do the Naval hierarchy have such a disconnect with how the lower deck feel?
 
Or reverting to the original system but not admitting that yet again they’ve screwed the manpower up. Rinse and repeat. Why do the Naval hierarchy have such a disconnect with how the lower deck feel?
How are you defining "lower deck" here? Solely WO and Senior CPOs? Or the POs and junior CPOs who know they are in a dead man's shoes scenario, waiting for a group of people who have no incentive to leave before they are 55?
 
So a money-saving exercise then, with tiny wage savings at the expense of morale and retention then?
Whose morale? Whose retention?
 

Rab_C

War Hero
How are you defining "lower deck" here? Solely WO and Senior CPOs? Or the POs and junior CPOs who know they are in a dead man's shoes scenario, waiting for a group of people who have no incentive to leave before they are 55?
Are both groups not on the lower deck and part and parcel of the whole picture. I am sure as a “team” player you’ll disagree but it all seemed to start with pay 2000 and has resulted in numerous knee jerk responses that are just fingers in the dyke.
 
Are both groups not on the lower deck and part and parcel of the whole picture. I am sure as a “team” player you’ll disagree but it all seemed to start with pay 2000 and has resulted in numerous knee jerk responses that are just fingers in the dyke.
Exackerly. Prior to Pay 2000 Artificers, which you had to be in order to be a CCPO, were paid on a separate pay scale. This meant that they got more money than non-Artificers and offset the issue of CCPO pay not being pensionable somewhat. You still got a higher pension than a non-Artificer CPO. With the arrival of Pay 2000 Artificers not only lost that slightly higher pay spine but also found themselves in the position of being capped at level 7 (I think) pay as a CPO to give CCPO their own levels while their non technician colleagues could progress right up to the top level. So they actually could be in a position of earning less than non tech colleague. Added to this was that you had to become a CCPO in order to be eligible for selection to WO1 which meant there was an extra step for technicians. This was excused by some rubbish about non tech CPOs rarely becoming CPOs early enough to get to the top two levels.
This was changed slightly by the coming of WO2 which at least brought a higher pension. The pay disparity and double step to WO1 remained though and the pay disparity still does in the newer pay system.
ATG can say what he likes about whinging engineers but it’s indisputable that Artificers went from a position where they were rewarded for their training, knowledge and working practices to one where they were disadvantaged compared to non technician CPOs both financially and in career terms. The RN bought into these changes, either did not realise what the effect would be or didn’t care and then brought in further changes which compounded the issues. It’s all traceable back to the Pay 2000 change and is not the fault of the rating engineers in any way shape or form.
 
Last edited:

Rab_C

War Hero
Exackerly. Prior to Pay 2000 Artificers, which you had to be in order to be a CCPO, were paid on a separate pay scale. This meant that they got more money than non-Artificers and offset the issue of CCPO pay not being pensionable somewhat. You still got a higher pension than a non-Artificer CPO. With the arrival of Pay 2000 Artificers not only lost that slightly higher pay spine but also found themselves in the position of being capped at level 7 (I think) pay as a CPO to give CCPO their own levels while their non technician colleagues could progress right up to the top level. So they actually could be in a position of earning less than non tech colleague. Added to this was that you had to become a CCPO in order to be eligible for selection to WO1 which meant there was an extra step for technicians. This was excused by some rubbish about non tech CPOs rarely becoming CPOs early enough to get to the top two levels.
This was changed slightly by the coming of WO2 which at least brought a higher pension. The pay disparity and double step to WO1 remained though and the pay disparity still does in the newer pay system.
ATG can say what he likes about whinging engineers but it’s indisputable that Artificers went from a position where they were rewarded for their training, knowledge and working practices to one where they were disadvantaged compared to non technician CPOs both financially and in career terms. The RN bought into these changes, either did not realise what the effect would be or didn’t care and then brought in further changes which compounded the issues. It’s all traceable back to the Pay 2000 change and is not the fault of the rating engineers in any way shape or form.
I gave you a like however my pension is only better than a B13 because I topped it up myself (AVCs)
 
I gave you a like however my pension is only better than a B13 because I topped it up myself (AVCs)
Ah. Ok. I was under the impression Tiffs extra pay was pensionable. Like a man in orthopaedic shoes I stand corrected. So one less positive in the whole thing then.
 
I've only ever met one Navy WO that I know of; he had a small office in HMS Drake and his time was mostly occupied with administering the vast property portfolio owned by his mess. Most of Plymouth, it looked like.
 

Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
My Div Chief at BRNC was an old and bold FCPO, MAA Hingston. Lovely bloke, a bit of a Brian Blessed lookalike :)
 
Last edited:
Reinstating WO2's in the RN,

It's a good job that it's not the RAF, as you would have a queue a mile long of passed over or over entitled Flight Sgt's outside of the RSM's Office at Army ran Joint Army/RAF WO'S & SGT's Messes.

'Please Sir, please pretty please Sir, can I now sit above the the Staff Sergeants and Army WO2 at Mess Functions.
 
Last edited:
Just about every woe in the RN engineering branches over the past couple of decades can be traced back to stupid decisions in the late 90s and early 2000s by the RNs senior leadership team at the time. The current WO situation is a direct result of those if you trace back through a few levels of bone headed choices.
 
Chiefs whose next promotion would have been to the higher-paid rank of WO1?
I think I'd tell the Chief that he's had a good career, advanced ahead of most of his contemporaries. And if he's great he might become a WO2, and if he's exceptional he may even become a WO1. But both of those are out of the norm for the vast majority of Ratings.
 

Latest Threads

Top