Regular Soldiers to Patrol Streets

PK

Old-Salt
#1
Here's an article from todays telegraph . . .

Telegraph said:
Now happy hour ends with 'martial law'
By David Bamber
(Filed: 19/06/2005)

Ministers have ordered the Army on to the streets to join an all-out summer campaign against anti-social drunken and violent behaviour by yobs.

Military police and ordinary uniformed soldiers will help keep youths under control in up to 20 towns and cities near military barracks.

Police deal with a drunken girl
More than 230 locations have been listed for special police measures

The strategy comes as police forces in more than 230 towns and cities begin a clampdown on disorderly behaviour by alcohol-fuelled youngsters, in response to a Home Office survey showing a disturbing rise in youth crime.

Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, has asked the Ministry of Defence to support police forces around the country after an experiment in Royston, Hertfordshire, where uniformed Redcaps - military police - were deployed to crack down on late-night violence by drunken yobs. As well as dealing with off-duty soldiers from a nearby base, they targeted civilians in the non-garrison town.

Their patrols were judged a success and the Redcaps are now seen regularly on the streets, alongside Hertfordshire beat police, in the small market town, where local officers have welcomed them. One officer said that although the military police are armed only with a baton similar to that used by ordinary police, their uniforms and military training deter antics from getting out of hand.

Until this experiment, military police, who have the same powers of arrest as ordinary police officers, have patrolled only in major military centres such as Aldershot, Colchester and Catterick. Now regular patrols will begin in towns and cities near military bases.

A spokesman for Liberty, the civil rights organisation, expressed concern. She said: "Until now the Armed Forces have only been used on the streets of Northern Ireland in recent years and we need to be very careful about using them on the mainland in peacetime."

A senior Ministry of Defence official said: "We do not expect hundreds of troops on the streets but we would think the very presence of unarmed troops will deter bad behaviour."

Ordinary soldiers have no powers of arrest and will not directly intervene in boisterous behaviour, but will act as a "calming and pacifying" influence, say Home Office officials. They would only intervene directly in the unlikely event of widespread civil disturbance. Military police are fully trained to deal with civilian disturbances.

More than 230 towns and cities including Blackpool, Brighton, Manchester, Birmingham and several London boroughs, have been listed for special police measures this summer. Extra police and civilian police assistants will be drafted in on Friday and Saturday nights as part of a zero-tolerance crackdown against drug-taking, under-age drinking and alcohol- related violence.

In some areas curfews will be imposed, allowing police to clear groups of youths from the street after 9pm. "Curfew zones" will be introduced, from which police may ban individuals for up to 24 hours using an Anti-Social Behaviour Order (Asbo). Anyone who breaches such an order faces a fine of up to £2,500 and a jail sentence.

The measures were prompted by a wave of violent incidents involving teenage gangs including the "happy slapping" craze, where teenagers attack their victim and film the assault on a mobile phone. In May, Tony Blair promised to curb anti-social behaviour and promote a culture of "respect".

The Sunday Telegraph has learned, however, that the next set of crime figures, to be released in September, will show that anti-social behaviour has not declined, despite attempts by some towns to deploy "yob-busting" teams. More young people complain of being victims of crime.

A Home Office spokesman said: "We want to ensure that people can go about their business without any problems and the Hertfordshire police and Army link up has provided a useful lesson."

David Davis, the shadow Home Secretary, said: "Bringing in the Army in a few small towns is just a gimmick. It will not solve the problem of yob culture.

"This shows Mr Blair's desperation. He has failed to get a culture of respect from yobs. He should concentrate on the causes of crime, not headline-grabbing ideas."
I particularly like this bit

Ordinary soldiers have no powers of arrest and will not directly intervene in boisterous behaviour, but will act as a "calming and pacifying" influence, say Home Office officials. They would only intervene directly in the unlikely event of widespread civil disturbance. Military police are fully trained to deal with civilian disturbances.
Can you imagine regular soldiers who've recieved full riot training and are generally trained to be aggresive interveneing with a civil disturbance - I see more soldiers than civvies gettin arrested here :roll:
 

PK

Old-Salt
#3
Ah yes, sorry I did look at that thread earlier.

I think this article is more looking at the use of regular soldiers in addition to monkeys and the like.
 
#4
Yes it is barking mad!

The idea of joint military/civpol policing in garrison towns has run successfully for a while. The RAF equivalents ran a similar scheme in Buckinghamshire in an area where recruit training takes place. I guess the theory is that a serviceman or women might be more likely to relapse into common sense if they see a military uniform through the drunken haze. Also, from the command chain perspective, potential trouble can be nipped in the bud by, for example, placing bars out of bounds or by depositing a few military policemen in uniform at chucking-out time.

However, it appears that this good idea will be stretched beyond the limit of common sense by using soldiers to cover for police shortages in tackling the anti-social behaviour of the general public.

How long will it be before off-duty soldiers become the targets of abuse as the result of their role. How long will it be before a soldier is prosecuted for using "unreasonable" force. Why should soldiers in an overstretched military be forced to cover for Home Office and civilian police inadequacies in between trips to whatever part of the world Bliar has messed up?
 
#5
So does that mean all the resources that are paid via council tax to the police force.
Half of the resources will be paid to our troops for them to have additional gear etc
 

PK

Old-Salt
#6
lawstudent said:
So does that mean all the resources that are paid via council tax to the police force.

Half of the resources will be paid to our troops for them to have additional gear etc
:lol: you're living in a fantasty world right???

Undermanned, overstretched and another job to do :?
 
#7
This is worrying for Manchester. The last time service personnel went out on the streets in uniform (last year, RN personnel), they received an almighty kicking (freedom parade, followed by civic service, then a group set upon by pissheads). Fortunately, the culprits received jail terms, but the uniform, in my own opinion, will just fuel drunken nutters to take a swipe.

Manchester Cop, any comments on what you think of soldiers patroling Manchester City Centre?
 
#8
leta have snipers on rooftops
always thought there was a role for snipers in drug education/mental health/scum herding
extremely assertive outreach:)
 
#9
And this from the party that for many years refused to let the TA undergo any IS trg cos it encouraged the state to oppression.
 
#10
Gunny Highway said:
Manchester Cop, any comments on what you think of soldiers patroling Manchester City Centre?
Personally think it would a very bad idea, the city centre is bad enough - to have soldiers on the street would be a shock to the city culture, to have soldiers with no powers would be to offer up targets for abuse. Who would you try your luck with, the police officer who can arrest you and use reasonable force? or the soldier who cant do a thing?
 
#11
If you can patrol the streets of Basra it should be a walk in the park to do the same in your average UK town. Look at it this way its practice for future peacekeeping deployments.
 
#12
tomahawk6 said:
If you can patrol the streets of Basra it should be a walk in the park to do the same in your average UK town. Look at it this way its practice for future peacekeeping deployments.
Good point but what about our powers of arrest etc.

I am fully confident that if the Army are given the right training and support then they will do a very good job.

The issues are however: Drunkards taking a pop and a media who quite often likes to give the Forces a slating.

In addition, what part of the forces are most suited in doing the job: Some units will require more training than others, and at what cost? And considering more than a few units are almost doing back to back tours, how are we going to find time to do these extra duties?
 
#13
I can just imagine an outfit like the Paras exerting a "calming influence" on a street full of lairy p*ssheads. :roll:

Even if you do get called out onto the streets and you are an outstanding success, do not expect any substantial gratitude from this government.
Tony is too scared of Gordon to fight to retain any of the regiments that are due to be axed or to ensure that you go to war with little luxuries, such as sufficient ammunition or body-armour.
 
#14
bernoulli said:
I can just imagine an outfit like the Paras exerting a "calming influence" on a street full of lairy p*ssheads. :roll:

Even if you do get called out onto the streets and you are an outstanding success, do not expect any substantial gratitude from this government.
Tony is too scared of Gordon to fight to retain any of the regiments that are due to be axed or to ensure that you go to war with little luxuries, such as sufficient ammunition or body-armour.
That would be fun, particularly if the lairy p*ssheads are the other half of the para bn who are 'off shift' :D
 
#15
Deleted.
 
#16
manchestercop said:
Gunny Highway said:
Manchester Cop, any comments on what you think of soldiers patroling Manchester City Centre?
Personally think it would a very bad idea, the city centre is bad enough - to have soldiers on the street would be a shock to the city culture, to have soldiers with no powers would be to offer up targets for abuse. Who would you try your luck with, the police officer who can arrest you and use reasonable force? or the soldier who cant do a thing?
whats to say that those said Sqauddies were to take them round the corner and give them a traditional squaddie talking to ? usually helped by a kick in the balls and a long pice wooden truncheon up them :D
 
#18
semper said:
whats to say that those said Sqauddies were to take them round the corner and give them a traditional squaddie talking to ? usually helped by a kick in the balls and a long pice wooden truncheon up them
As a soldier giving a civilian a "talking to" will lead in that soldier getting a talking to from chaps like myself and Veg, then the ambulance chasing solicitors will get involved.
 
#19
I thnik its a good idea as long as they have some powers to exert a calming influence. Sod making arrests, thats paperwork, but just the ability to get stuck in when it kicks off. Basically MOD bouncers!!

OS
 

mysteron

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
Soldiers on the streets patrolling? Madness, Ipso custodes ipses custodes?

If soldiers are given power of arrest then we might as well dust off the plan for Op Motorman and be done with it. 1984? Sounds like it.

Soldiers are for fighting wars, we are not really for peacekeeping but we muddle through, we are not policemen and women, we are not firemen and women either.

Government...fund and support the civil services. Fund and support the Armed Forces and stop stabbing us all in the back.
 

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