Regimental Proectionism at it's worst or at it's best?

B

bokkatankie

Guest
#1
I have replied that this is just plain silly and that this sort of campaign has stopped any real progress in the Army for the last few reviews.

WHAT YOU NEED TO DO RIGHT NOW PLEASE TO SAVE QDG (NB we have to act this week)

1. EMAIL YOUR MP TODAY

You and as many local friends and family as you can rally to help email your local MP. You must make put your address on it and make it clear you are their constituent. You don't have to make it clear that you're a QDG or ex-QDG just that you are just a local who's hopping mad at this possibility of the QDG being axed. If you don't know your MPs details please get them from the list shown at the bottom of this email (NB only those MPs for the QDG’s recruiting areas of Wales and the Border Counties are shown. If you live outside of this area a list of MP’s and their details is shown at http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/

So please send an email of your own words but if you want something to cut and paste please use something like this:


if you live in Wales please try and get something like this into your email:
I would like you ask you as my local MP to make it clear in the House of Commons and if possible to the Secretary of State for Defence, his PPS Claire Perry and best of all the Prime Minister that you do not want the Welsh Cavalry, 1st The Queens Dragoon Guards (QDG) cut or amalgamated as it would just not be fair on Wales. Because if the QDG are axed, Wales will lose a third of its cap badged regiments down to just two whilst England will have just over 30! Plus the QDG are Wales's only armoured regiment- So why don't they take one from the English who have 8! I would hope the Government show responsibility in rejecting the Army’s criteria for making possible recommendations to axe regiments on the basis that their metric only serves the narrow regimental interests of the military queueing system when the decision should be made for the greatest good in the National Interest! If this Government allows the QDG to be axed it will be indicative that Westminster is just too lazy to bother overruling the military recommendations which threaten a further erosion of Wales's Heritage.

If you live in England where the Regiment recruits (Border Counties) please try and get something like this into your email:

I would like you ask you as my local MP to make it clear in the House of Commons and if possible to the Secretary of State for Defence, his PPS Claire Perry and best of all the Prime Minister that you do not want the Welsh Cavalry, 1st The Queens Dragoon Guards (QDG) cut or amalgamated as it would just not be fair on this county as it is one of only two regiments associated with it and is an employer in the constituency. Also I understand there is a potential happy solution where cap badges can be saved in the Royal Armoured Corps merging the two remaining Royal Tank Regiments (and they should not be too unhappy as their regiment will still survive) which in turn would enable the only Welsh and Scots (QDG and RSDG) to survive which has got to be the best solution for the Union as a patriotic Briton.
If you live outside of the QDG recruiting area please try and get something like this into your email:
I would like you ask you as my local MP to make it clear in the House of Commons and if possible to the Secretary of State for Defence, his PPS Claire Perry and best of all the Prime Minister that you do not want the Welsh Cavalry, 1st The Queens Dragoon Guards (QDG) cut or amalgamated as it will damage the Union of Great Britain.. Also I understand there is a potential happy solution where cap badges can be saved in the RAC merging the two remaining Royal Tank Regiments (and they should not be too unhappy as their regiment will still survive) which in turn would enable the only Welsh and Scots (QDG and RSDG) to survive which has got to be the best solution for the Union as a patriotic Briton.

2. AND THEN RING YOUR MP AND MAKE AN APPOINTMENT FOR A CHAT WITH HIM/HER

Please ring the number show below for your MP (or if you live outside the recruiting area look it up on the weblink
http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/
and ask to make an appointment to speak to him/her. Ask your MP if they have read your email and ask them directly whether they will step up and lobby for the QDG THIS WEEK or it will be too late!
 
#3
Its all a little late as I had heard that the date for the Carter Review to announce was the 22nd May. It has slipped many times so won't hold my breath.

The RAC should have bitten the bullet in SDR 98 and gone for large regiments such that we had Dragoons 1st, 2nd and 3rd, Lancers, 1,2,3; Hussars 1,2,3; RTR 1,2,3 HCR 1 & 2, Would have made current circumstances a little less painful. Indeed, when I joined there were 19 Armd Regts and now there are about 19 Armd Sqns - we will end up like the RA with an historic regiment's history embedded in one Squadron.

Anyway the special pleading and political lobbying leaves a bad taste in my mouth as the various Cavalry and RTR should be putting forward a united front for their people and the Army.
 
#4
I have replied that this is just plain silly and that this sort of campaign has stopped any real progress in the Army for the last few reviews.

WHAT YOU NEED TO DO RIGHT NOW PLEASE TO SAVE QDG (NB we have to act this week)

1. EMAIL YOUR MP TODAY

You and as many local friends and family as you can rally to help email your local MP. You must make put your address on it and make it clear you are their constituent. You don't have to make it clear that you're a QDG or ex-QDG just that you are just a local who's hopping mad at this possibility of the QDG being axed. If you don't know your MPs details please get them from the list shown at the bottom of this email (NB only those MPs for the QDG’s recruiting areas of Wales and the Border Counties are shown. If you live outside of this area a list of MP’s and their details is shown at http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/

So please send an email of your own words but if you want something to cut and paste please use something like this:


if you live in Wales please try and get something like this into your email:
I would like you ask you as my local MP to make it clear in the House of Commons and if possible to the Secretary of State for Defence, his PPS Claire Perry and best of all the Prime Minister that you do not want the Welsh Cavalry, 1st The Queens Dragoon Guards (QDG) cut or amalgamated as it would just not be fair on Wales. Because if the QDG are axed, Wales will lose a third of its cap badged regiments down to just two whilst England will have just over 30! Plus the QDG are Wales's only armoured regiment- So why don't they take one from the English who have 8! I would hope the Government show responsibility in rejecting the Army’s criteria for making possible recommendations to axe regiments on the basis that their metric only serves the narrow regimental interests of the military queueing system when the decision should be made for the greatest good in the National Interest! If this Government allows the QDG to be axed it will be indicative that Westminster is just too lazy to bother overruling the military recommendations which threaten a further erosion of Wales's Heritage.

If you live in England where the Regiment recruits (Border Counties) please try and get something like this into your email:

I would like you ask you as my local MP to make it clear in the House of Commons and if possible to the Secretary of State for Defence, his PPS Claire Perry and best of all the Prime Minister that you do not want the Welsh Cavalry, 1st The Queens Dragoon Guards (QDG) cut or amalgamated as it would just not be fair on this county as it is one of only two regiments associated with it and is an employer in the constituency. Also I understand there is a potential happy solution where cap badges can be saved in the Royal Armoured Corps merging the two remaining Royal Tank Regiments (and they should not be too unhappy as their regiment will still survive) which in turn would enable the only Welsh and Scots (QDG and RSDG) to survive which has got to be the best solution for the Union as a patriotic Briton.
If you live outside of the QDG recruiting area please try and get something like this into your email:
I would like you ask you as my local MP to make it clear in the House of Commons and if possible to the Secretary of State for Defence, his PPS Claire Perry and best of all the Prime Minister that you do not want the Welsh Cavalry, 1st The Queens Dragoon Guards (QDG) cut or amalgamated as it will damage the Union of Great Britain.. Also I understand there is a potential happy solution where cap badges can be saved in the RAC merging the two remaining Royal Tank Regiments (and they should not be too unhappy as their regiment will still survive) which in turn would enable the only Welsh and Scots (QDG and RSDG) to survive which has got to be the best solution for the Union as a patriotic Briton.

2. AND THEN RING YOUR MP AND MAKE AN APPOINTMENT FOR A CHAT WITH HIM/HER

Please ring the number show below for your MP (or if you live outside the recruiting area look it up on the weblink
http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/
and ask to make an appointment to speak to him/her. Ask your MP if they have read your email and ask them directly whether they will step up and lobby for the QDG THIS WEEK or it will be too late!
Have I missed something or is this a fcuking wind up? IMHO the RTR have already taken most of the pain of amalgamations within the RAC, tis about time the Cav took some of the pain. Simple amalgamate the QDG and Scots/FijiDG and solve their recruiting problems FFS.
 
C

cloudbuster

Guest
#5
Having read this, could I just say, as an impartial observer, DIDDUMS. It reads as if it was written by a village idiot. Or Tropper.
 
#6
Because if the QDG are axed, Wales will lose a third of its cap badged regiments down to just two whilst England will have just over 30! Plus the QDG are Wales's only armoured regiment- So why don't they take one from the English who have 8!


WTF???? I thought it was the BRITISH Army or have they slipped devolution even further while I was taking my afternoon nap??
 
#7
If someone has to go, it may as well be them. Not THE them, the QDG I meant. They did survive the last round after all and got all of the 'best' blokes from the rest of the RAC.
 
#9
Who the fcuk are the RSDG?

The only true way forward is to form regional Bde capbadges, which contain all the bits and bobs needed. Recruited from one area.

For example a Welsh and Wessex Bde recruited from (oddly enough) Wales and Wessex. The Wyvern and feathers as the capbadge perhaps. The Wales and Wessex Bde would then contain a Cav unit, 3 bns of Inf, Regiments of RA, RE etc.

Ditto for Scotland and northern counties (to make up the recruiting shortfall), NI and Midlands, South East and a Guards Bde (drawn from the whole UK perhaps?) There is the five Bdes. Unless we could get a sixth bde to form a 36 month FORM cycle.

16 AA would be drawn from the whole of UK also.

I find those emails distasteful... particularly the 'cut the RTR, they wont mind', 'the English have many' and the pump about Welsh and Jock heritage. If they were told to choose between the two, it would be fun to see the carnage from a QDG v Scots DG face off.

Basically, I suppose, the originator of that email is a weapons grade cnut.
 
#10
Check out the ******* avatar pic, I was converted to Regimental Recce from Inf just so these ******* could pretend they'd dumped armoured units, asstards. I know it was only a stab unit but it's still bollocks...
 
#14
This sort of stuff should be simple to sort out in the following way.

CC1 de CDS.

What o chaps we need to get rid of 1 armoured regiment and 4 Infantry Bns. Please see below for the average recruiting and manning levels for the past five years. The bottom 1 and 4 will be getting merged with somebody else, end of discussion. I suggest those units get out 'pressing the flesh' and get back to me with a unit they'd like to be merged with and 2 reserves. If no one volunteers for merger, then the worst units will merge with the next worst (ie the bottom two armoured units and bottom eight infantry bn will merge).

That is all.

Simple stuff. No p1ssing about listening to a bunch of old blokes gobbing off about history. The lads are writing history now on foreign fields. Stealling French p1ss pots just doesn't cut it any more, and we've had so many amalgamations that quite frankly all our capbadges are pretty distinguished.

I remember trying to put my point across to a lunatic father of a mate of mine. He'd never served, but decided that the A&S Highlanders should be saved no matter what. When I pointed out the Cheshire's and Green Howard's were also for the chop he just said 'but think of the history that will be lost if the A&S go'... talk about a face palm moment.
 
B

bokkatankie

Guest
#15
Not having a pop at either your good self or bokka, but at whoever wrote that crap.
It is the silliest bit of tripe, for a long time, to enter my email inbox; save the welsh, **** the rest. We had the same with Options; save the Cheshires, battleing bonking bob of Bosnia saw to that.

When will the cretins in the Army learn that preserving cap badges over long term capability is the wrong way to do it.
 
#16
I'd imagine it will be easier now, with the exception of the Guards.
 
#18
I'm pleased to see this shortsighted view irritates others as much as it does me. We (the RAC) need to pull together to ensure we are in a position to deliver the right capability instead of infighting and making ourselves look like parochial dinosaurs. While I won't relish the loss of a capbadge or regiment, I can see that the RAC must change in order to survive. My view is that it should effectively amalgamate with the infantry into the combat corps, which could easily contain combined arms Regts/Bns which wear the old infantry and RAC capbadges and keep their traditions alive. I'm afraid that in these days of radical change and financial pressure we cannot afford to give the "die in a ditch" regimental association types a vote.
 
#19
I'm pleased to see this shortsighted view irritates others as much as it does me. We (the RAC) need to pull together to ensure we are in a position to deliver the right capability instead of infighting and making ourselves look like parochial dinosaurs. While I won't relish the loss of a capbadge or regiment, I can see that the RAC must change in order to survive. My view is that it should effectively amalgamate with the infantry into the combat corps, which could easily contain combined arms Regts/Bns which wear the old infantry and RAC capbadges and keep their traditions alive. I'm afraid that in these days of radical change and financial pressure we cannot afford to give the "die in a ditch" regimental association types a vote.
When the subject of CA Bns came up a while ago, you didn't seem very keen on the idea - stating that the existing Battle-grouping system achieved the same end already. Has something changed your mind, or did I just get the wrong end of the stick?

Just askin', like.
 
#20
When the subject of CA Bns came up a while ago, you didn't seem very keen on the idea - stating that the existing Battle-grouping system achieved the same end already. Has something changed your mind, or did I just get the wrong end of the stick?

Just askin', like.
As with all things the devils lies in the detail. Perhaps I should have said two career streams within a single close combat corps, a primarily mounted stream and a primarily dismounted one and left the detail to later. But yes you are correct combined arms battalions (at least in their simplest form) can lead to a loss of flexibility that can be achieved by battlegouping.

Fact doesn't changes that the "I'll die in a ditch over the loss of my former capbadge" line so often trotted out by those who are way out of date irritates me. The fact that there are still separate regimental associations for RAC regiments that amalgamated in the 90s and (albeit TA) RAC regiments which still wear different Sqn capbadges demonstrates how backward some people are. As I've said before, change is going to happen we can embrace it and thrive or fight it and whither. It is worth taking a look at the infantry, the former Scots Div regiments fought it and argued over every last detail and have ended up weaker as a result while the RIFLES just got on with it and have flourished.
 
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