Refuse promotion

Dont get me wrong I would be so grateful if given sgt stripes. But I am not going to do more for less. So apart from the cash difference what else do you get for being a sgt
You don't get to spend the rest of your career as bedding storeman.
 
That really depends on what sector you’re moving into.

Also, a bit like academic qualifications, if you’ve got one that you don’t need, no harm. If being an ex SNCO/WO doesn’t mean anything, don’t worry, but the more quivers you have to your bow, the better. Better to have a skill or experience you don’t need than lack one you do.

Everyone pushes the boundaries of their CV, a bit of rank and subsequent experience and/or management helps push realistic boundaries.
Isn't the danger in that though that for a lot of civies there only knowledge of WO and SNCOs is the old stereotypes from 'Get Some In' and 'Bad Lads Army' and they think a former Sergeant Major is going to treat their staff like some crow in a Training Regiment and have most of their staff out on strike in the first week.

There is much talk in the Army of how I managed a platoon of 30 men or a company of 100. But the difference in civilian life is that you can't just jail them if they don't instantly obey an order.
 

oldfecker

Clanker
Isn't the danger in that though that for a lot of civies there only knowledge of WO and SNCOs is the old stereotypes from 'Get Some In' and 'Bad Lads Army' and they think a former Sergeant Major is going to treat their staff like some crow in a Training Regiment and have most of their staff out on strike in the first week.

There is much talk in the Army of how I managed a platoon of 30 men or a company of 100. But the difference in civilian life is that you can't just jail them if they don't instantly obey an order.
True, But if it gets a foot in the door ...

One thing I’ve learnt about interviews is that they often (usually) want to talk about things not obviously related to the job application, are you a “more rounded person?” If the interviewer has pre-conceived ideas about the Military, great, you have a huge opportunity for discussion and debate - use it to your advantage.

Some also like the military attitude to unions and (perceived) work attitudes.
 

oldfecker

Clanker
Have to add, when a Graduate talks about his/her ‘summer of hell’ working in McDonalds and you talk about your ‘summer of hell’ in Afghanistan, who has the major bragging rights?

Doesn’t matter if you weren’t there, they can’t prove otherwise.
 
Have to add, when a Graduate talks about his/her ‘summer of hell’ working in McDonalds and you talk about your ‘summer of hell’ in Afghanistan, who has the major bragging rights?

Doesn’t matter if you weren’t there, they can’t prove otherwise.
If it gets you into her knickers, who cares!
 

oldfecker

Clanker
I can't talk about Civvy St, but i was looking at coming out a few years ago as a Cpl and the archaic Career Transition Workshop really fucked me off with their focus on rank = what job you will get; and the workshops were segregated into rank ie seniors and officers will have a better chance in Civvy St than the erks.

The jobs they tailored my CV too and jobs i got sent were security guard and factory work.

The CTP needs a MAJOR overhaul.
Can’t disagree that CTW and resettlement needs to be reviewed, but that’s a new thread. Start it.
 
Where is your pride man, do you not have any future ambition. The WO's & SGT's Mess is the back bone of the British Army. If you want to be a Cpl all your life then fine. But you should take the short term hit in favour of the long term. Anyone who refuses promotion clearly doesn't understand the shit filters.
I disagree, the Cpl is the backbone of the Army
 
Dont stay a full screw just to stay with yr mates and dig trenches and stuff together. They will get promoted up or leave, and as some others have said, you shit the bed - you lie in it. OC's and CO's will remember and across the other companies/squadrons/batterys/whatever, blokes will be moving across and taking your slots.
Go for it if its offered buddy :thumleft:
I think he has a technical trade, no idea why
 

oldfecker

Clanker
No issues regarding trade. No issues if he/she really enjoys their current job. Don’t know about their short/long term objectives, however, the focus os his/her OP was the financial aspect of promotion.

Given the lack of maturity, stay a JNCO.
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
Thanks for the reply and I appreciate the harshness. I have got an IT/Comms background, though I am currently in an ERE post and due back at my parent Regiment in September 2021. I'm hoping I can pick up my third prior to going back, but it all depends what job I would do?

In reference to my future, I have been studying with the Open Uni since 2015, for a BSC in Computing and IT (Communications and Networking). The OU is offering a degree in Cybersecurity, but it is not available until 2021, but I could change as I have done most of the courses already, I would just need to wait until the new modules became available. I know I mention data science and programming, but I have a real interest in Network engineering and have done part 1 CISCO CCNA with the OU. I'm also doing Python with Udemy and they offer courses on Data Science.
My plan is to have a BSC at least by the time I leave after 24 years. At least if I do leave as a Cpl, I'll have something to show for it.

I would not be against starting in a junior role if that's what it takes.
With all due respect, an OU BSc is at best an entry-level qualification nowadays, when the universities and former polytechnics are churning out Computer Science graduates by the metric fucktonload, including some 4-year courses with an industry year as part of the course. The CCNA is useful, but you probably need to identify which aspect of IT and/or comms floats your boat the highest and go in hard to get relevant commercially-recognised qualifications in that field.

As noted in other responses, getting the interview at all is hard and depends upon a paper sift, generally by HR drones with no idea what any of the letters and numbers mean and then a depressing series of interviews with similar before you eventually get to someone who knows what they're talking about.

On a related note, as an ex-Service type myself, if someone presented as a 22- or 24-year full screw, I'd be asking myself about their potential for growth and development before I even brought them in for interview.
 
What happens if you refuse promotion from Cpl to Sgt?

I ask because I used to be on the higher pay scale and when the new pay scale came out I was moved to supplement 1. So what happens now is my pay as a cpl doesn't exist and it's near the top end of sgt.

This year I got 3RO so promotion could be possible.

I ve worked out my pay rise will be £165. I am currently on a great posting abroad and only been here a couple of months and dont want to leave.

If I got promoted I would get more money, just. But I would have to pay mess Bill's etc and diners. So my income I bring will be less. So I will be working for less.

What is the point for working less. How would you refuse promotion if given it and what would happen. I expect the chain of command to not understand. Just wanted to know peoples view on here
I don't know how these new pay scales work as they came into effect some time after I left. You say that promotion is possible which implies that you haven't been notified that you will be promoted so at this moment it's all a bit moot.

Even though you are enjoying your current posting, as others have said, that could all turn on its head if circumstances change with new seniors or officers coming in. They could implement all sorts of changes that might turn your life into a misery.

You seem overly concerned by the pay which sounds as if it amounts to very few pounds rather than thousands. Put it this way, even if you are a few pounds shorter on promotion because of mess bills and other sundries you will only ever reach a maximum salary as a corporal which will never go beyond that which you will earn as a staffy or WO. You have to go through the rank of sgt to get there. Further to that, when it comes to retiring your increased pension value will outweigh the small hit you take on promotion. Financially, it's a no brainer to get promoted, even if those financial gains aren't immediately apparent.

How does your posting system work? Are you able to speak to a clerk and discuss what opportunities are available to you if and when you do promote? You may be able negotiate a posting that beats your current one into a top hat and don't forget a range of different experiences can be worth their weight in gold when it comes to filling out your CV and getting through that initial CV sift when looking for a post-army career.

On that note, I know that promotion to SNCO holds far more importance to the army than it does to the RN because we do different jobs and have different levels of responsibility within rank and role but being able to show on your CV that you have been promoted to a more senior level and given higher levels of responsibility over manpower and materials can mean a lot to a future employer. Again, this could mean the difference between being forced as a civvy job seeker to accept a lower paying job with fewer responsibilities or one that gives you a few more disposable beer tokens in your sky rocket at the end of each month.

When you promote will you not attend career courses that will bring you up to an acceptable standard for the role you'll be doing and provide relevant qualifications to match that role?

As well as experience, qualifications make a big difference when looking for a civvy job. You might not be thinking about leaving the army right now but you have to one day. Recruitment agencies are the gatekeepers as very few employers hire directly, they leave it to the agencies to sort out and then skim-read through the CVs forwarded to them, giving each one no more than a cursory glance. If you don't have the relevant qualifications and experience you don't even get considered to be passed to an employer let alone get the interview.

I don't know how far you are into your army career but if I may offer one piece of advice, start making a note of what you are doing in your career, particularly when it comes to particular roles and experiences that show a strength of character, ability and responsibility. Build your CV now and update it periodically so that when the time does come for you to leave you are well ahead of the curve and aren't sat there scratching your bonce thinking 'what the fcuk did I do 20 years ago?'

To summarise, what I am saying is think ahead and play the long game.
 
Similarly, programming - unless you have a particular and specific skill in one of the areas of interest - for data science, R, Python or SAS, old and new, plus good Java skills and a decent knowledge of C++...
I'll back this up. That B.Sc in Computer Science is a good solid start, but it leaves you at the entry level of the IT profession, along with an awful lot of young graduates - you'll start off on an entry-level wage.

To gain an advantage, you would need to demonstrate that you weren't just offering education, but experience; realistically, the exercises completed as part of a degree course are no more "real experience" than doing section attacks as a student on an NCO cadre makes you an "experienced infantry NCO" - like it or not, "I did X at university / as part of my MBA course" comes across much like "in the cadets we did it this way"...

Industry doesn't place as much emphasis on "I've done the course" as the Army. My current manager is bloody good in a niche field, on the back of a few A-levels and a lot of luck being in the right place at the right time. No-one cares that he hasn't got a degree, because he's got twenty-five years of good experience doing the job in the same industry. In a similar vein @Glad_its_all_over is very highly respected, he's a Fellow of two professional bodies (none of your CMgr FCMI stuff, real institutions :cool:)... if you've got the skills, the certificate might be unnecessary. If you haven't got the skills, a certificate won't help.

I'll be honest and say that after thirty years at the codeface I've never earned much more than a regular Major; too many distractions in my youth, too many personality flaws, an unwillingness to move cities, and one too many recessions, mean that I never made any huge leaps up the promotion tree. That, and an utter disinterest in being a project manager. People have said "would you lead this team", and I've said "more than happy to" - I've got seven or eight years as a good team leader under my belt over the last thirty, but it's not what I enjoy. Keep me in a room and throw me crunchy problems that have broken others, or let me mentor junior engineers? I'm happy as a pig in sh!t. I enjoy what I'm good at, and vice versa, and luckily the wife earns much more than me. I work 9-5 (ish), I'm home at weekends, I could drop the kids off at school and pick them up afterwards if she was off doing the senior business executive thing. Fair trade, I reckoned.

But... if you're willing to travel for your work, if you're willing to put the hours in on top of your degree (say, a couple of years contributing to one of the open-source projects; doing useful and practical home projects that you can natter about proudly at interview), if you're careful about the subject areas, and training / certification that you choose? Maybe. But you'll have to work hard at it, you'll have to be good at it, and it helps to be lucky.

PS take the promotion, for the pension increment alone. Turn it down, and you might top out as a Cpl; take it, and you might make SSgt. Add up the difference between Cpl and SSgt pension over the period "40 years old until death". It beats the crap out of the cost of a decade's mess membership. I left one firm, and a final-salary pension, for a 30% pay rise. Turns out that if I'd stayed there, I might have been a lot better off in ten years...
 
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Bob65

War Hero
I have been studying with the Open Uni since 2015, for a BSC in Computing and IT (Communications and Networking). The OU is offering a degree in Cybersecurity, but it is not available until 2021, but I could change as I have done most of the courses already, I would just need to wait until the new modules became available. I know I mention data science and programming, but I have a real interest in Network engineering and have done part 1 CISCO CCNA with the OU
I don't want to discourage you at all, but a BSc and the full CCNA would be someone 22-23 years old in civvy street. The CCNA is no longer in 2 parts (since February), there's only the unified exam so your part 1 CCENT isn't a stepping stone to CCNA any more. By age 25-26 a good network engineer would have their CCNP which is quite a big step up. In order to be competitive you will really need to emphasise the "I managed X people and £Y worth of kit" side.
 

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