Refuse promotion

What happens if you refuse promotion from Cpl to Sgt?

I ask because I used to be on the higher pay scale and when the new pay scale came out I was moved to supplement 1. So what happens now is my pay as a cpl doesn't exist and it's near the top end of sgt.

This year I got 3RO so promotion could be possible.

I ve worked out my pay rise will be £165. I am currently on a great posting abroad and only been here a couple of months and dont want to leave.

If I got promoted I would get more money, just. But I would have to pay mess Bill's etc and diners. So my income I bring will be less. So I will be working for less.

What is the point for working less. How would you refuse promotion if given it and what would happen. I expect the chain of command to not understand. Just wanted to know peoples view on here
Where is your pride man, do you not have any future ambition. The WO's & SGT's Mess is the back bone of the British Army. If you want to be a Cpl all your life then fine. But you should take the short term hit in favour of the long term. Anyone who refuses promotion clearly doesn't understand the shit filters.
 

lecky

War Hero
I turned my third down. I was in the Crabs, but I imagine there's not too much difference in the reactions of the Services to this sort of thing?
I had one eye on leaving and had just bought a House in what passes for an area with good employment prospects for me and my family. My Wife was fed up with Service Life. My kids were showing signs of being bright and I wanted to support them from a Home next to a Local University to reduce their debt levels... and so on.
Then came the news of a Promotion to a Squadron on the other side of the country in an area that was surrounded by potato fields as far as the eye could see. " Thanks, but no thanks, I'm getting out soon."
I was told in no uncertain terms that I'd wouldn't be promoted again for 4 years. Which would have gone passed my planned date to leave
I was getting out, so I wasn't that fussed. What was important to me was setting my family up after my Service was up.
My next annual review and my Line Manager gave me a 1 for Loyalty. In interview, I agreed with him and signed it.
1 week later, the Flight Sergeant called me back in and told me that he'd upped my score for loyalty to a 3. I resigned it.
14 months later, they promoted me in Post... and I still left, as and when I said I'd planned to do it.

Whatever you choose to do, do so with an eye for what you want for the medium to long term and do so for what's best for you. If you turn it down and aren't at the end of your Career, you're going to attract a lot of controversy and a lot of unfavourable response. Your Line manager could well feel let down and insulted by your decision. You've let them down and they'll feel that everyone will suspect their judgements. Others a bit further up the chain, might have one eye on what might be best for the Service, but that can go either way, particularly if they think it sets an example that others might follow. Don't discount the possibility of you turning it down and then they post you anyway! Not for your benefit, but for the example it'll give everyone else in the future.
 
.......if I'm interviewed by ex-forces for a position, then leaving as a Junior after 24 years will go against me in civvie street :-(
Not always. I hired (twice, actually) a former Trooper, albeit with "only" 12 years service. He still works for me now. He doesn't have a commercial bone in his body, but he's extremely good at what I hired him for, and that's all I care about.

Just be very, very good at what it is you want to eventually do.........the rest will take care of itself on the outside, good or bad.
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
That's my big concern. I have just under 5 years left with VENG and I'm worried that if I leave as a fullscrew, my employment options will be limited, even though I'm working on gaining civilian qualifications that hopefully are in demand (IT, Data science, programming), if I'm interviewed by ex-forces for a position, then leaving as a Junior after 24 years will go against me in civvie street :-(
I'm going to be quite harsh here. Unless you're currently working in the IT/comms field at a fairly high level, any civilian job you can secure will be relatively junior and will see you competing with a bunch of smart, well-qualified young grads in their early 20s, who'll work for relative peanuts, compared to what you will expect.

If you're absolutely sure this is what you want to do, of course, don't let me talk you out of it, but I'd certainly consider the advantages you'd bring to the table is you could, beside technical qualification, a solid body of management and leadership responsibility, with evidence.

You talk about data science and programming. I've just left a firm where the baseline qualification for a data scientist was at least a Master's, more usually a PhD and several years' commercial experience. SImilarly, programming - unless you have a particular and specific skill in one of the areas of interest - for data science, R, Python or SAS, old and new, plus good Java skills and a decent knowledge of C++....

At this point I'd invite my friend @Gravelbelly to comment, he's a progamming ninja.
 

Gerber

Swinger
Where is your pride man, do you not have any future ambition. The WO's & SGT's Mess is the back bone of the British Army. If you want to be a Cpl all your life then fine. But you should take the short term hit in favour of the long term. Anyone who refuses promotion clearly doesn't understand the shit filters.
First I do have pride. In regards to future ambitions, I know I will need a 2nd career when leaving the army and I need to earn money to enjoy my life (house, 2 x cars, family and going to university for my PG Certificate). You say the WO and Sgt mess is the backbone of the British Army. Why is it? What is so important about this club? Shit always rolls down hill, if you let it.
 
First I do have pride. In regards to future ambitions, I know I will need a 2nd career when leaving the army and I need to earn money to enjoy my life (house, 2 x cars, family and going to university for my PG Certificate). You say the WO and Sgt mess is the backbone of the British Army. Why is it? What is so important about this club? Shit always rolls down hill, if you let it.
The Officers give the orders but nothing gets done without the WO's & SGT's Mess.

With regards to your comment about shit rolling down hill, see my comment about the shit filters. Think about it, if shit always runs down hill the closer you are to the bottom of the hill the more likely you are to get covered in shit. Is that clear enough for you.
 
I'd be very, very careful turning promotion down, or even giving your CoC a sniff that you might do so. You'd be potentially severely denting your progression 'curve' for what is really, only a short term non-career 'gain'.

If I were in your shoes, I'd assume you weren't going to get promoted (early promotion is still an outside bet) and if you get do get selected for promotion, take the short term negatives on the chin and carry on moving upwards.

Not being willing to move from JNCO to SNCO would come across as immaturity and could be the Mark of Cain on your reputation and profile.

Obviously, do what you want, but think about how you might feel about that decision in 5 or 10 years time.
 
The Officers give the orders but nothing gets done without the WO's & SGT's Mess.

With regards to your comment about shit rolling down hill, see my comment about the shit filters. Think about it, if shit always runs down hill the closer you are to the bottom of the hill the more likely you are to get covered in shit. Is that clear enough for you.
And nearer the top, you can choose what shit sandwiches you eat and what to avoid. At the bottom, you're just at the end of the human centipede.

Mmmm.
 
Frankly, if you're worried about a minor temporary difference in cash compared to an obvious career improvement with far more civvie kudos when you leave, you need to get out and chase the cash now.

Hope it works for you - the jobs market is thriving right now while everything is prosperous and happy.
 

FLA4ever

Swinger
I'm going to be quite harsh here. Unless you're currently working in the IT/comms field at a fairly high level, any civilian job you can secure will be relatively junior and will see you competing with a bunch of smart, well-qualified young grads in their early 20s, who'll work for relative peanuts, compared to what you will expect.

If you're absolutely sure this is what you want to do, of course, don't let me talk you out of it, but I'd certainly consider the advantages you'd bring to the table is you could, beside technical qualification, a solid body of management and leadership responsibility, with evidence.

You talk about data science and programming. I've just left a firm where the baseline qualification for a data scientist was at least a Master's, more usually a PhD and several years' commercial experience. SImilarly, programming - unless you have a particular and specific skill in one of the areas of interest - for data science, R, Python or SAS, old and new, plus good Java skills and a decent knowledge of C++....

At this point I'd invite my friend @Gravelbelly to comment, he's a progamming ninja.
Thanks for the reply and I appreciate the harshness. I have got an IT/Comms background, though I am currently in an ERE post and due back at my parent Regiment in September 2021. I'm hoping I can pick up my third prior to going back, but it all depends what job I would do?

In reference to my future, I have been studying with the Open Uni since 2015, for a BSC in Computing and IT (Communications and Networking). The OU is offering a degree in Cybersecurity, but it is not available until 2021, but I could change as I have done most of the courses already, I would just need to wait until the new modules became available. I know I mention data science and programming, but I have a real interest in Network engineering and have done part 1 CISCO CCNA with the OU. I'm also doing Python with Udemy and they offer courses on Data Science.
My plan is to have a BSC at least by the time I leave after 24 years. At least if I do leave as a Cpl, I'll have something to show for it.

I would not be against starting in a junior role if that's what it takes.
 

Gerber

Swinger
Frankly, if you're worried about a minor temporary difference in cash compared to an obvious career improvement with far more civvie kudos when you leave, you need to get out and chase the cash now.

Hope it works for you - the jobs market is thriving right now while everything is prosperous and happy.
It's the career improvement that I am questioning.

How is an improvement for working for less and gaining more outgoings. There is some sound advice from everyone.

It just if you speak to the chain of command they give you what they call career advice but it's more army advice.

Dont get me wrong I would be so grateful if given sgt stripes. But I am not going to do more for less. So apart from the cash difference what else do you get for being a sgt
 
It's the career improvement that I am questioning.

How is an improvement for working for less and gaining more outgoings. There is some sound advice from everyone.

It just if you speak to the chain of command they give you what they call career advice but it's more army advice.

Dont get me wrong I would be so grateful if given sgt stripes. But I am not going to do more for less. So apart from the cash difference what else do you get for being a sgt
Errr, the step to SSGT, then WO - but if that's not what you want, stay where you are but be prepared to at best have a slow rest of your career, at worst shunted off to a dark corner to be forgotten.

What does your missus think?

As an aside, I've never chased money - always did what felt right, but ultimately was the most interesting, furthered me as a person and gave me the opportunities to meet cool people and do cool stuff.

Ironic that I retired at 47...
 

In_Twists

Clanker
Dont stay a full screw just to stay with yr mates and dig trenches and stuff together. They will get promoted up or leave, and as some others have said, you shit the bed - you lie in it. OC's and CO's will remember and across the other companies/squadrons/batterys/whatever, blokes will be moving across and taking your slots.
Go for it if its offered buddy :thumleft:
 
That's my big concern. I have just under 5 years left with VENG and I'm worried that if I leave as a fullscrew, my employment options will be limited, even though I'm working on gaining civilian qualifications that hopefully are in demand (IT, Data science, programming), if I'm interviewed by ex-forces for a position, then leaving as a Junior after 24 years will go against me in civvie street :-(
Any role in Civvy Street that is non-MOD related that asks about your rank isn't worth bothering with.
 

Hippohunter

Old-Salt
What happens if you refuse promotion from Cpl to Sgt?

I ask because I used to be on the higher pay scale and when the new pay scale came out I was moved to supplement 1. So what happens now is my pay as a cpl doesn't exist and it's near the top end of sgt.

This year I got 3RO so promotion could be possible.

I ve worked out my pay rise will be £165. I am currently on a great posting abroad and only been here a couple of months and dont want to leave.

If I got promoted I would get more money, just. But I would have to pay mess Bill's etc and diners. So my income I bring will be less. So I will be working for less.

What is the point for working less. How would you refuse promotion if given it and what would happen. I expect the chain of command to not understand. Just wanted to know peoples view on here
I would be very careful on giving my reasons. If you mention you really like where you are a pound to pinch of pig shit the minute you turn down promotion you will get a posting order to some shit hole. Petty I know but that is how the system works.
 

Gerber

Swinger
Errr, the step to SSGT, then WO - but if that's not what you want, stay where you are but be prepared to at best have a slow rest of your career, at worst shunted off to a dark corner to be forgotten.

What does your missus think?

As an aside, I've never chased money - always did what felt right, but ultimately was the most interesting, furthered me as a person and gave me the opportunities to meet cool people and do cool stuff.

Ironic that I retired at 47...
My misses has a real job. So thats another issue to add on. What ever I do cam effect her work aswell. But apart from money which isnt more being a sgt doesn't seem to be a benefit. I am not arguing about the ssgt bit or wo bit. They seem to earn good money. However I dont see me getting wo2 as you got to do 2 years in rank before being promoted and times not on my side for that.

The question I think I need to really ask myself is, do I want to stay in.

Everyone advice/comments made are appreciated and it has given me room to think
 
That's my big concern. I have just under 5 years left with VENG and I'm worried that if I leave as a fullscrew, my employment options will be limited, even though I'm working on gaining civilian qualifications that hopefully are in demand (IT, Data science, programming), if I'm interviewed by ex-forces for a position, then leaving as a Junior after 24 years will go against me in civvie street :-(

I'd be surprised if you're ever interviewed by anyone who is ex-forces to be honest. That's nothing to say ex-forces don't get to the level where they are making hiring decisions, it's just in general not many people join the forces. And if they are biased against you that much, then it's unlikely you'd get to the interview stage so you would never know.

Just concentrate on getting your quals and work experience.
 
I'd be surprised if you're ever interviewed by anyone who is ex-forces to be honest. That's nothing to say ex-forces don't get to the level where they are making hiring decisions, it's just in general not many people join the forces. And if they are biased against you that much, then it's unlikely you'd get to the interview stage so you would never know.

Just concentrate on getting your quals and work experience.
This. The number of people in civvy street (if it’s still called that) who have any experience or understanding of military life is vanishingly small. Chances are your first job ‘interview’ will be done by an 18 year old girl over the phone and the second by some kid who left university last summer. They won’t care, or even know, what rank you left at.
That‘s not to sound bitter, it’s just as it is.
AsterixTG is right. When it’s time to move on, look for something you might enjoy or find fulfilling. In the meantime you have the luxury to think about what that might be.
 

oldfecker

Clanker
I'd be surprised if you're ever interviewed by anyone who is ex-forces to be honest. That's nothing to say ex-forces don't get to the level where they are making hiring decisions, it's just in general not many people join the forces. And if they are biased against you that much, then it's unlikely you'd get to the interview stage so you would never know.

Just concentrate on getting your quals and work experience.
That really depends on what sector you’re moving into.

Also, a bit like academic qualifications, if you’ve got one that you don’t need, no harm. If being an ex SNCO/WO doesn’t mean anything, don’t worry, but the more quivers you have to your bow, the better. Better to have a skill or experience you don’t need than lack one you do.

Everyone pushes the boundaries of their CV, a bit of rank and subsequent experience and/or management helps push realistic boundaries.
 
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