Refuse promotion

Gerber

Swinger
What happens if you refuse promotion from Cpl to Sgt?

I ask because I used to be on the higher pay scale and when the new pay scale came out I was moved to supplement 1. So what happens now is my pay as a cpl doesn't exist and it's near the top end of sgt.

This year I got 3RO so promotion could be possible.

I ve worked out my pay rise will be £165. I am currently on a great posting abroad and only been here a couple of months and dont want to leave.

If I got promoted I would get more money, just. But I would have to pay mess Bill's etc and diners. So my income I bring will be less. So I will be working for less.

What is the point for working less. How would you refuse promotion if given it and what would happen. I expect the chain of command to not understand. Just wanted to know peoples view on here
 
Sounds like garbage to me.
 
What happens if you refuse promotion from Cpl to Sgt?

I ask because I used to be on the higher pay scale and when the new pay scale came out I was moved to supplement 1. So what happens now is my pay as a cpl doesn't exist and it's near the top end of sgt.

This year I got 3RO so promotion could be possible.

I ve worked out my pay rise will be £165. I am currently on a great posting abroad and only been here a couple of months and dont want to leave.

If I got promoted I would get more money, just. But I would have to pay mess Bill's etc and diners. So my income I bring will be less. So I will be working for less.

What is the point for working less. How would you refuse promotion if given it and what would happen. I expect the chain of command to not understand. Just wanted to know peoples view on here
At a guess, they would just promote someone in your place and you would spend the rest of your service as one of those bitter passed over Corporals. You could see if they will promote you in post. Explain that you don't want to disrupt your familly.

If you don't intend to make the army your full career it won't make much difference.
 

oldfecker

Clanker
I was in the same position, however, if you don’t take the ‘financial hit’ and accept Sgt, then you can never progress to SSgt or WO where the big money and the ability to take more control over your life/career kicks in. Taking into account pensions etc, a short term hit will benefit you and your family (financially) for the rest of your life.

As a SNCO, you can expect to be treated more like an adult (unless R SIGNALS), and former SNCO/WO might look better on your CV than former JNCO.

Short term pain v long term gain. If you can’t work it out for yourself, you’re probably not SNCO material.
 
Don't think short term, if you consider your third as a stepping stone to adding a crown and when that happens would you then be quids in?
 

Gerber

Swinger
To be honest I need to add does anyone also care out on civi street if your a WO, SSgt, Sgt or Cpl etc... because when I look at jobs it asks if you have a degree.

It just seems your treated as a mug working for less money. I understand the long term chat etc.. but I have a gleaming job that I actually enjoy. I am on a 2 year posting. If I get promoted I lose it all.
 

CRmeansCeilingReached

ADC
Moderator
If I got promoted I would get more money, just. But I would have to pay mess Bill's etc and diners. So my income I bring will be less. So I will be working for less.

What is the point for working less.

It is better to be at the bottom of a ladder you want to climb, than halfway up one you don't.
 
To be honest I need to add does anyone also care out on civi street if your a WO, SSgt, Sgt or Cpl etc... because when I look at jobs it asks if you have a degree.

It just seems your treated as a mug working for less money. I understand the long term chat etc.. but I have a gleaming job that I actually enjoy. I am on a 2 year posting. If I get promoted I lose it all.
Carry on doing the gleaming job that you actually enjoy but explain the circumstances to your chain of command politly. Beware though as things in life can change quite quickly. One minute things are hunky dory and everything is absolutly spiffing. The next it can turn to rat shit, even when you are in a gleaming job that you enjoy.

This is usually because the grown ups running the show, who have made it a gleaming job that everyone enjoys, have been moved on and absolute dipsticks take over.

This happens in all walks of life, not just the military. Its just the army have more ability to make things shit.

What happens after your two year posting? You will probably end up in some shit hole. If you don't intend to make the army your career, start planning now.
 

ACAB

LE
Sounds like garbage to me.
Good Lord !!! You are a (ock!!!

If you do not take seriously the issues concerning your troops what kind of officer does that make you?
 

dan_brown

War Hero
Last time i read the JSP, Cpl to Sgt is minimum of 5% pay increase, therefore you should jump a few levels?

But options include:

Rank Range your post
Defer promotion
Decline promotion and go back in the pot.

I took my 3rd because of the pay increase/pension, extra contract years and as above, treat more like an adult.

If the offer comes through i would still speak with my desk and see what's on offer. But ultimately only you can decide.
 
To be honest I need to add does anyone also care out on civi street if your a WO, SSgt, Sgt or Cpl etc... because when I look at jobs it asks if you have a degree.

It just seems your treated as a mug working for less money. I understand the long term chat etc.. but I have a gleaming job that I actually enjoy. I am on a 2 year posting. If I get promoted I lose it all.
However in civi street there are a couple of things that might bite if you don't take it, once/if you get to interview:

Military interviewers by which I mean ex-forces or current reserve types who know what a cpls role is, if interviewed against a Sgt or even a good civi "22 years and a cpl?" Would be in my mind for our more senior positions, wouldn't necessarily be the biggest thing if you interviewed well, but is another barrier to overcome.

2) Ability to talk about higher responsibility in interview. "For the last 15 years of my military career I was a Cpl, in charge of 8 people doing xyz." Or "for my last 5 years i was a staff sgt/colour sgt, looking after the welfare of 30 people, ensuring they had all equipment, knowledge and information to conduct their activity and that my junior managers (cpls) could look after their teams. I also deputised for the WO2 when he was on leave, conducting that role for approx 100 people."

Without going via Sgt you won't get to staffy or higher...

Speak to your troopy/PC. Explain your worries. If you get selected for promotion and refuse it (s)he will be asked some hard questions too, as his/her write up is key to the process.

What is your relationship with the troop staffy/Sgt like? Maybe have a chat with them first. Also check the map to see of you are entitled to an increase in pay. I'm on childcare today or I'd have a look.
 
QR’s is very clear that you are entitled to refuse promotion. If you do then assuming that you continue to have a recommendation then you will go to board again next year around about this time. The Cpl to Sgt Promotion Year is 1 Oct to 30 Sep, so assuming you are notified in Jul 21 depending on what job you promote into you could move as late as Sep 22. That would probably allow you to spend your two years abroad.
You cannot defer promotion, you were selected when you were selected against the quota for a specific promotion year.
My advice would be that if you are informed in Jul that you have come off this years board that you talk to your CoC immediately and explain why you wish to turn it down. I think most reasonable people would understand and support you. You are right to consider job satisfaction and the experience of living and working abroad (which is diminishing). If you are able to speak to your career manager at APC or email them explaining your reasons I would consider that too.
Soldiers are always being urged to take control of their career, I think this is what you are doing. Get yourself informed, understand the future implications and make the right decision for you based on what you know now. For a start, work out how long you have left in the Army if you serve a full term, how missing a year of promotion effects potential final rank, if refusing promotion impacts on ability to change VEng contract if you haven’t already, if promotion would allow you access to further professional qualifications etc. If you can find a good WO or Offr to chat your thoughts through with, an honest outside opinion could be worthwhile.

edited to add: the above assumes that you have gone to Jun 20 prom bd and were successful...that could be quite the assumption...
 
RAF can defer promotion when serving overseas - i take it this isn't an option for Army?
Not an option for the Army for the reasons stated earlier, selected for vacancies in the next promotion year against a quota agreed with Workforce Plans at HQ Army.

Edited to add - depending on what sector you look to go into in civvy street the likelihood of your interviewer knowing the difference between Corporal and Colonel is, in my opinion, low. If you are interviewed by ex-forces where your leaving rank was important to your job applied for I would expect a good interviewer to give you the opportunity to explain specific circumstances.
 

Dalef65

Old-Salt
depending on what sector you look to go into in civvy street the likelihood of your interviewer knowing the difference between Corporal and Colonel is, in my opinion, low. If you are interviewed by ex-forces where your leaving rank was important to your job applied for I would expect a good interviewer to give you the opportunity to explain specific circumstances.
Without making any comment, on the original wider question, this comment here is in my opinion quite accurate.
Most employers that I have come across simply don't know about it don't much care about the distinctions between ranks that we find so common .
 

FLA4ever

Swinger
Without making any comment, on the original wider question, this comment here is in my opinion quite accurate.
Most employers that I have come across simply don't know about it don't much care about the distinctions between ranks that we find so common .
That's my big concern. I have just under 5 years left with VENG and I'm worried that if I leave as a fullscrew, my employment options will be limited, even though I'm working on gaining civilian qualifications that hopefully are in demand (IT, Data science, programming), if I'm interviewed by ex-forces for a position, then leaving as a Junior after 24 years will go against me in civvie street :-(
 

Dalef65

Old-Salt
In the sort of fields you're looking at there the focus will very much be on your qualifications, experience and abilities. Not on whether you were a Corporal or a Sergeant when you left the Army.
 

dan_brown

War Hero
That's my big concern. I have just under 5 years left with VENG and I'm worried that if I leave as a fullscrew, my employment options will be limited, even though I'm working on gaining civilian qualifications that hopefully are in demand (IT, Data science, programming), if I'm interviewed by ex-forces for a position, then leaving as a Junior after 24 years will go against me in civvie street :-(
I can't talk about Civvy St, but i was looking at coming out a few years ago as a Cpl and the archaic Career Transition Workshop really fucked me off with their focus on rank = what job you will get; and the workshops were segregated into rank ie seniors and officers will have a better chance in Civvy St than the erks.

The jobs they tailored my CV to and jobs i got sent were security guard and factory work.

The CTP needs a MAJOR overhaul.
 
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FLA4ever

Swinger
I can't talk about Civvy St, but i was looking at coming a few years ago as a Cpl and the archaic Career Transition Workshop really fucked me off with their focus on rank = what job you will get; and the workshops were segregated into rank ie seniors and officers will have a better chance in Civvy St than the erks.

The jobs they tailored my CV too and jobs i got sent were security guard and factory work.

The CTP needs a MAJOR overhaul.
I've had friends leave in the last year and they've managed to get into the Cybersecurity field, which apparantly is getting big. They were both Juniors, though not been in as long as me. No real mention that they had problems with the CTP, but they did do a lot of things off their own backs. I think a lot of it is self discipline and knowing what you want to do after the Army, which I know is the IT field.
 

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