Referendum on Europe

#2
But a referendum on what? Doesn't look like we'd get an "in or out" question.

Of course, if you want to get to the heart of Mr Cameron's motivation, you need read no further than this:

“Whole swathes of legislation covering social issues, working time and home affairs should, in my view, be scrapped.”
That gets right to the nub of the issue - it's the damned proletariat and their "rights"! How are the rich supposed to exploit them when such frivolous notions as the rule of law get in the way!
 
#4
That will only happen "when the time is right" so probably not any time soon anyway.
Indeed, or certainly not until well after Mr Cameron ceases to be PM.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
Cameron has two problems; one political, one financial.

The political problem is a simple one: which ever party publicly commits itself to holding a referendum first will get 'first mover' advantage - they will get the political credit for the decision, while other parties who agree to a referendum later will be perceived as jumping on the bandwagon.

I doubt any of the major political parties really want a referendum on Europe because the results not in doubt. The majority of the electorate has been eurosceptic for some time and would gladly sever most ties with Europe - using them as a trading partner only. But the political dividend from being 'first mover' is so high, all parties will be eying each other suspiciously. If they think a major policy announcement on a referendum is going to come from their opponents, they may try and jump in first.

The financial problem is straightforward. The city and its financial institutions are a major contributor to the UK's finances. The city also handles 75% of the financial transactions in Europe. Applying a 'Tobin tax' to the city raises lots of money for the EU and cripples the UK economy at the same time. No political party can afford to be more bound into Europe if that results in the UK being outvoted and a tax placed on the City against the wishes of parliament.

I suspect that Cameron hopes that by threatening a referendum, he can get major concessions from Europe. The UK withdrawing from the European Union would be a body blow to the EU - which is a powerful threat. But by even talking about a referendum, he's slowly letting the genie out of the bottle.

(Although I haven't forgotten or forgiven him for promising a referendum before the last election, then weaselling out of his promise).

Wordsmith
 
#7
I'd imagine they'd not dare give us a vote. No sensible person would continue the disgusting gravy train other than an M.P.
In my opinion if we left the EU we would have no choice but to try and remain within the free trade area. A condition of this (as for the Swiss) is usually an acceptance of the majority of EU law.

I really don't see the point of accepting the baggage but not having any of the influence.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#8
In my opinion if we left the EU we would have no choice but to try and remain within the free trade area. A condition of this (as for the Swiss) is usually an acceptance of the majority of EU law.

I really don't see the point of accepting the baggage but not having any of the influence.
Trade is fine, throwing money at them is a different matter.
 
#9
........ is usually an acceptance of the majority of EU law.
.........
So.....how does that work? They or us decide what we accept? The EU cannot just stop trading with the UK...
 
#10
So.....how does that work? They or us decide what we accept? The EU cannot just stop trading with the UK...
They decide ordinarily with the Swiss. The Swiss won't join outright because it would be unconstitutional to subordinate domestic sovereignty to the EU.

If it were possible to remain part of a free trade block but without the EU-guff then I would consider it.

However it is important to keep in mind the motives of the Tory right. A lot of employment protection and market regulation emanates from the EU and I suspect this is why they want out.
 
#12
".... prepared to consider ..."? He's just buying time until he can pass the problem on!

Let's cut the crap and give us an in/out vote! We had a referendum in 1975 (I voted NO) which means that nobody under the age of 55 has had a say!
 
#13
I'd imagine they'd not dare give us a vote. No sensible person would continue the disgusting gravy train other than an M.P.
Lots of people love the EU, people avoiding deportation (human rights bollox) eastern European immigrants with UK rights, welfare spongers, immigrants, limp-dems, the unemployable, those fiddling the EU, that's a fair whack of people.
 
#15
Lots of people love the EU, people avoiding deportation (human rights bollox) eastern European immigrants with UK rights, welfare spongers, immigrants, limp-dems, the unemployable, those fiddling the EU, that's a fair whack of people.
Sadly, very true!
 
#16
Wasn't that supposed to be the cases in the UK but they did it anyway, started by the traitor, Heath?
Why the "traitor, Heath"? Why not "the traitor, Wilson" or "the traitor, Home"? They tried to get Britain to join the EEC as well but France vetoed them. Just because Heath was at the helm when it went through doesn't make him the actual traitor as Britain had been trying to join in for over 10 years.
I did vote Yes in the referendum in 75 because it was put to us that it was a good thing. No talk of subjugating sovereignty, having another set of government and a ruling body. It was simply a trading area which would be good for British exports and keep the costs of imports down. I very much doubt if anyone would have voted for the mega-bureaucracy it has become.
 
#17
Why the "traitor, Heath"? Why not "the traitor, Wilson" or "the traitor, Home"? They tried to get Britain to join the EEC as well but France vetoed them. Just because Heath was at the helm when it went through doesn't make him the actual traitor as Britain had been trying to join in for over 10 years.
I did vote Yes in the referendum in 75 because it was put to us that it was a good thing. No talk of subjugating sovereignty, having another set of government and a ruling body. It was simply a trading area which would be good for British exports and keep the costs of imports down. I very much doubt if anyone would have voted for the mega-bureaucracy it has become.
And there is the problem with the EU. IIRC we never joined it, what we joined was the EEC.
 
#18
And let's face it, mainstream politicians hate the whole concept of referendums. Because after all they know best don't they?
 
#20
And I think they're right - a referendum is a shite way of deciding anything.
It is certainly an unreliable one-the powers that be have only to engineer the question to get the answer they and their paymasters require.If ever there is a referendum on the EU,therefore,the question will,without doubt,be thoroughly loaded in favour of a 'Yes' vote,regardless of either perceived or actual public opinion.The point an earlier poster made about EU employment regs is also a valid one.

I believe Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty makes provision for any member state to leave the EU,so don't let any of the rabid Europhiles try to convince you that it can't be done...
 

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